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Message from England to France
Erik -
Ok, so far, so good.
How do you want to proceed? I am toying with shooting for DEN and NWY this
year - possibly costing me BER.
Next year hopefully I will have my army in KIE.
Let me know if you have any suggestions, & I'd be glad to be a sounding
board for whatever's on your mind. BEL - RUH, would be my guess. . .
Ben
Message from Turkey to Italy
Ok, builds are finally in, and as predicted Russia has a knife to my throat.
How do you want to do this? I assume Russia will kick me out of Bla this
turn, followed by an attack on Con/Ank. I'll support Bul with Aeg to try
and stem the tide, and attack Rum with Gal.
jason
Message from Turkey to Russia
No wrestling while I'm here! :-)
I think I have a little breathing room from Italy (especially as long as
France is meanacing), but I appreciate the offer. I'll remind you if
things go south. ;-)
jason
Message from Turkey to England
Good luck up there. Unfortunately, Austria's support for Russia really
threw him a big lead, with a 2 center swing. I'm working with Italy now,
but the momentum is clearly in his favor.
jason
Message from Italy to Turkey
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from jasonab@acm.org as Turkey to Italy in 'c2':
>
> Ok, builds are finally in, and as predicted Russia has a knife to my throat.
You arent dead yet, so dont panic.
> How do you want to do this? I assume Russia will kick me out of Bla this
> turn, followed by an attack on Con/Ank. I'll support Bul with Aeg to try
> and stem the tide, and attack Rum with Gal.
Your moves right now should be GAL - RUM with 2 supports, and AEG - CON.
Lets make his life bloody miserable.
He is likely to cover BUD w/Serbia, may even request a support there from
the Austrian. If GAL gets piffed, we rebuild it next year.
If he spends enough energy to kick you out of BLA, he loses Rum. You
retreat to ARM and defend your homeland from COn and ARM with a rebuild
coming in the winter.
I am taking Trieste in the spring and moving to Tyrolia w/Piedmont, and
GREeece with AEG, just in case...if I make it there, I can defend you in
Bulgaria.
Good luck
Andy
Message from Italy to England and France
Gentlemen,
I cannot describe how important it is for the 2 of you to do 3 things;
1. Work together
2. Take some Russian dots.
3. Not attack me.
If you attack me at this point, Russia gets all of Turkey and all of the
Balkans.
If you dont start taking some of his dots, it wont matter.
You guys are working at a glacial pace, please pick it up.
If you need anything from me, please speak up, I will give tactical advice
if asked.
Andy
Every normal man must be tempted, at times
to spit on his hands, hoist the skull and
crossbones, and begin slitting throats"
- H.L.Menken
Message from Turkey to Italy
Don't worry, no panicking here.
I was doing Aeg S Bul, but I agree having it in Con will be more useful,
although he might be able to dislodge Bul and keep me out of Rum with
Ukr and Sev. We'll have to see, though. It would take a lot of guesswork
on his part.
jason
Message from Italy to Turkey
> I was doing Aeg S Bul, but I agree having it in Con will be more useful,
> although he might be able to dislodge Bul and keep me out of Rum with
> Ukr and Sev. We'll have to see, though. It would take a lot of guesswork
> on his part.
Exactly.
And his luck should be running thin soon, he has had a horseshoe falling
out of his ass fro most of this game.
talk to you soon.
Message from England to France and Italy
> 1. Work together
Ok.
> 2. Take some Russian dots.
Ok.
> 3. Not attack me.
Ok.
> If you dont start taking some of his dots,
> it wont matter.
Ok. I'm doing it, starting this year.
> You guys are working at a glacial pace,
> please pick it up.
Ok, ok.
> If you need anything from me, please speak
> up, I will give tactical advice if asked.
I know we've discussed it privately, but tactical advice for myself & the
team is always welcome.
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Good luck up there. Unfortunately,
> Austria's support for Russia really
> threw him a big lead, with a 2 center
> swing. I'm working with Italy now,
> but the momentum is clearly in his favor.
I may lose BER and/or KIE, but I should be able to seal the gate in the
north.
I am glad to hear you are working with Italy.
Ben
Message from Austria to Russia
Eric,
Before we talk strategy, I would like to take the time to point
out a few things, wich I didn't do before as I didn't want to
risk seeing you doubt my desire to go through with my offer.
First, you recently mentionned Andy's lack of trust in what I
was telling him, but it's quite normal when you share some of
our discussion with him, as you did with Jason before (like
telling Jason I had warned you about the attack on Rum). I'm
not sure how much it helped before, but to keep doing so will
surely be detrimental to you unless it's part of a carefully
coordinated attempt at deception. Afterall, I'm now nothing
more then an auxilliary of yours.
Second, unless you simply want me to point out a few things
and act as told, I need to be kept in the loop or risk acting
against your interest by ignorance. It would of course be more
fun for me to play an active part in your attempt at solo, but if
you don't want me to, I will respect your choice.
This being said, and without knowing more, my suggestion for
this spring would be to aim for four goal: take the Black Sea,
secure Tyrolia, eliminate the turkish army in Gal & prevent
the destruction of the army in Tri so it can be used in the fall.
To do so, I suggest the following:
Russia:
-Rum-Bla supported by Sev
-War-Gal support by Sil
-Ser-Bul & Ukr-Rum to bounce an attempt at Gal-Rum
-War-Tyr supported by Boh or the reverse depending on
wich territory is less likely to get attack.
Austria:
-Tri-Bud supported by Vie to block Gal-Bud and save Tri
Yours truly,
Philippe
Message from Russia to Austria
> but it's quite normal when you share some of
> our discussion with him, as you did with Jason before (like
> telling Jason I had warned you about the attack on Rum).
When is this supposed to have happened? The last time I recall telling him
that you fed me info was back in F02, when I took Rum with a fleet because he
was going to use Rum to help you and not me. While it's entirely possible
that I said something during the cooperative RT years (I have a vague
recollection of minor info sharing the season he supported me into Bud), I
have said nothing about your info to me recently. In fact, you never even
told me Jason was attacking Rum - you said he would likely order Bul S Ser.
Check your press to me if you think I'm mistaken, but I believe every single
recommendation from you was for Rum-Bul. As I told you, NOT moving Rum-Bul
was difficult to choose because it was expressly going against your
recommendations. So to tell him you warned me, I'd have had to lie,
specifically to put your trustworthiness in doubt.
I gambled that he would use significant force to take Rum rather than support
Ser because I offered him Rum in exchange for not taking Bud. But if you look
at it, I never had that info from you -- the move choice was all based on my
direct conversations with him. All I told him after the moves (which is true)
is that I made a lucky guess. I think it's natural that Jason would *think*
you warned me, especially if he really *did* confide in you. And if he thinks
it happened, then I doubt there is anything you or I can do to change his
mind. But if he said I directly told him that you warned me, then he's just
plain lying.
Similarly, with Andy, I didn't discuss anything in particular with him. Each
turn I have asked him very generally if he was willing to cooperate with me
in any way. His response was basically "as long as you are gaining dots and
I'm not, I have no reason to believe anything you say. And as long as Austria
is helping you, I'm not going to believe anything he tells me either". There
was no disucssion of WHAT you had told him (or what you told me) just a
general statement that he had no trust in info coming from you. That is what
I reflected back to you.
Sorry, I know this is probably overreaction to your comment, but I am totally
committed to you doing well: you getting good info is critical for me, and
your armies are better placed than mine are, and you have better ideas than I
do half the time anyway. I am doing NOTHING to intentionally undermine your
position, and I have done everything I can to minimize press about you to the
other players. (France asked two seasons ago if I would be propping you up,
and I strongly indicated that RT would be removing you quickly to try to make
it less obvious we were cooperating).
> I'm not sure how much it helped before,
As noted above, it was only something I did when we were actively fighting.
No one has heard anything about AR cooperation from me directly.
> Second, unless you simply want me to point out a few things
> and act as told, I need to be kept in the loop or risk acting
> against your interest by ignorance. It would of course be more
> fun for me to play an active part in your attempt at solo, but if
> you don't want me to, I will respect your choice.
From my end you are very much in the loop and active in the process. The
moves with England were agreed to within about 3 hours of the deadline, and
the move choices overall with Jason was one of those things that we had
discussed in detail. You gave me your thoughts on what he might do (including
attacking War, how I might defend if he did, etc) and we bandied that about.
I didn't confide in you the final moves, but that was because they weren't in
more than an hour or so in advance. I did fail to point out that I had
offered Rum to Turkey, but I did that even before the previous turn's
retreats processed, and so it wasn't in the forefront of my mind when I
talked to you about strategy.
> This being said, and without knowing more,
My take at this point is that there is an StL, and everyone is out to get me.
I have basically zero hope to convince Andy to attack France, but I'm hoping
he might try to sneak in behind Jason to secure Turkey as it falls. If that
happens, Jason might try throwing centers in spite. Similarly, I'm hoping
that Erik can't stand to sit behind Ben and Andy's lines throughout the next
few seasons, and may even make things easy for Ben to encourage Erik's
paranoia (that, in addition to holding Den, was why I helped England despite
it hurting me positionally in the north). Other than that, it's hold out and
let the StL fall apart through inertia. And that's my current thinking.
I need to actually get to work now, but I hope the above quells any fears
that I'm trying to keep you out of the loop on anything.
> my suggestion for this spring would be
I'll need to get back to you on specific moves, but Tri-Bud with support is
definitely something I agree with. We should talk about the relative merit of
taking Tyl vs. Ber (Tyl needs to be blocked, but we may be able to hold off
taking it until Fall.)
All this is up for discussion, and I'm happy to discuss in detail. Any sense
of out-of-the-loopness you get is entirely due to my lack of time, not lack
of trust or interest. You'll see in my press to observers that from my point
of view you have essentially run my units for the last two seasons, and that
I hoped that having that level of influence over 11 (now 13) pieces made
continuing to work with me worthwhile for you. My apologies that it comes
across in any way that I'm disregarding your input.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to England and France
> I know we've discussed it privately, but tactical advice for myself & the
> team is always welcome.
>
This is a spring turn.
I think we have to take a couple of chances.
NAO - NWG
NTH c EDI - HOL
KIE - DEN
SKA s KIE - DEN
BER - BAL
Odds say he wont attack both Ber and Kie, he will position into Pru
though, my suspition is by moving Boh - Sil and Sil - Pru, WAR wont move
with that army in GAL.
France...
Bur - Ruh
Par - Bur
Bel s Par - Bur
What to do withthese fleets is a ?
You really do need another army, but moving a fleet somewhere to dislodge
and disband it is going to be really tough.
What do you suggest.
Andy
Message from England to France and Italy
Gentlemen -
> NAO - NWG
> NTH c EDI - HOL
> KIE - DEN
> SKA s KIE - DEN
> BER - BAL
I had been troubled by how to deal with a possible F HEL. This is an
elegant solution.
> Odds say he wont attack both Ber and Kie, he will position into Pru
> though, my suspition is by moving Boh - Sil and Sil - Pru,
> WAR wont move with that army in GAL.
Looks good to me. Sets up for a nice follow up in the fall. . .
> You really do need another army, but moving a fleet somewhere
> to dislodge and disband it is going to be really tough.
>
> What do you suggest.
Your proposal is better. My ideas involved trying to put the army in
Scandinavia - DEN or NWY - which would have left the Russian F DEN a
problem.
Ben
Message from Italy to England and France
> > You really do need another army, but moving a fleet somewhere
> > to dislodge and disband it is going to be really tough.
> >
> > What do you suggest.
This is directed to Erik.
He has 3 fleets that he is doing nothing with. And 2 can amply protect
hiscountry
Message from Austria to England
Ben,
Can you tell me what I'm looking at? While I have been
trying to survive between Andy & Eric, I have seen you
attack France while you told me that you would take
care of Russia then take out Germany with Russia's help.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Russia
> > but it's quite normal when you share some of
> > our discussion with him, as you did with Jason before (like
> > telling Jason I had warned you about the attack on Rum).
>
> When is this supposed to have happened? The last time I recall telling him
> that you fed me info was back in F02, when I took Rum with a fleet because he
> was going to use Rum to help you and not me. While it's entirely possible
> that I said something during the cooperative RT years (I have a vague
> recollection of minor info sharing the season he supported me into Bud), I
> have said nothing about your info to me recently. In fact, you never even
> told me Jason was attacking Rum - you said he would likely order Bul S Ser.
> Check your press to me if you think I'm mistaken, but I believe every single
> recommendation from you was for Rum-Bul. As I told you, NOT moving Rum-Bul
> was difficult to choose because it was expressly going against your
> recommendations. So to tell him you warned me, I'd have had to lie,
> specifically to put your trustworthiness in doubt.
>
> I gambled that he would use significant force to take Rum rather than support
> Ser because I offered him Rum in exchange for not taking Bud. But if you look
> at it, I never had that info from you -- the move choice was all based on my
> direct conversations with him. All I told him after the moves (which is true)
> is that I made a lucky guess. I think it's natural that Jason would *think*
> you warned me, especially if he really *did* confide in you. And if he thinks
> it happened, then I doubt there is anything you or I can do to change his
> mind. But if he said I directly told him that you warned me, then he's just
> plain lying.
>
> Similarly, with Andy, I didn't discuss anything in particular with him. Each
> turn I have asked him very generally if he was willing to cooperate with me
> in any way. His response was basically "as long as you are gaining dots and
> I'm not, I have no reason to believe anything you say. And as long as Austria
> is helping you, I'm not going to believe anything he tells me either". There
> was no disucssion of WHAT you had told him (or what you told me) just a
> general statement that he had no trust in info coming from you. That is what
> I reflected back to you.
>
> Sorry, I know this is probably overreaction to your comment, but I am totally
> committed to you doing well: you getting good info is critical for me, and
> your armies are better placed than mine are, and you have better ideas than I
> do half the time anyway. I am doing NOTHING to intentionally undermine your
> position, and I have done everything I can to minimize press about you to the
> other players. (France asked two seasons ago if I would be propping you up,
> and I strongly indicated that RT would be removing you quickly to try to make
> it less obvious we were cooperating).
>
> > I'm not sure how much it helped before,
>
> As noted above, it was only something I did when we were actively fighting.
> No one has heard anything about AR cooperation from me directly.
OK. There's been some confusion it seem. When I said I waited
before telling you, I really meant it. What I was refering to all date
back before Spring 1905, so it has nothing to do with your opting
to support yourself in Rum last year, wich was the best decision
given what you had told Jason. The past being the past, I won't
waste time going over what I meant, the important point is that
since I started working for you, it's not to your advantage to share
our discussion, if it ever was. Since we both agree on this, let's
take care of the rest instead of wasting time on this.
> > Second, unless you simply want me to point out a few things
> > and act as told, I need to be kept in the loop or risk acting
> > against your interest by ignorance. It would of course be more
> > fun for me to play an active part in your attempt at solo, but if
> > you don't want me to, I will respect your choice.
>
> >From my end you are very much in the loop and active in the process. The
> moves with England were agreed to within about 3 hours of the deadline, and
> the move choices overall with Jason was one of those things that we had
> discussed in detail. You gave me your thoughts on what he might do (including
> attacking War, how I might defend if he did, etc) and we bandied that about.
> I didn't confide in you the final moves, but that was because they weren't in
> more than an hour or so in advance. I did fail to point out that I had
> offered Rum to Turkey, but I did that even before the previous turn's
> retreats processed, and so it wasn't in the forefront of my mind when I
> talked to you about strategy.
OK. I must say I was totally taken by surprise by your alliance
with England. Anyway, it's fun to know that I'm in the loop and
not simply spurting out strategy having no link with the situation
at hand.
> > This being said, and without knowing more,
>
> My take at this point is that there is an StL, and everyone is out to get me.
> I have basically zero hope to convince Andy to attack France, but I'm hoping
> he might try to sneak in behind Jason to secure Turkey as it falls. If that
> happens, Jason might try throwing centers in spite. Similarly, I'm hoping
> that Erik can't stand to sit behind Ben and Andy's lines throughout the next
> few seasons, and may even make things easy for Ben to encourage Erik's
> paranoia (that, in addition to holding Den, was why I helped England despite
> it hurting me positionally in the north). Other than that, it's hold out and
> let the StL fall apart through inertia. And that's my current thinking.
>
> I need to actually get to work now, but I hope the above quells any fears
> that I'm trying to keep you out of the loop on anything.
Then the situation is more problematic then I thought. Not
wanting to interfere with whatever you were doing in the
north, I limited my press to Andy & Jason. I will now see
what I can learn from Ben.
> > my suggestion for this spring would be
>
> I'll need to get back to you on specific moves, but Tri-Bud with support is
> definitely something I agree with. We should talk about the relative merit of
> taking Tyl vs. Ber (Tyl needs to be blocked, but we may be able to hold off
> taking it until Fall.)
>
> All this is up for discussion, and I'm happy to discuss in detail. Any sense
> of out-of-the-loopness you get is entirely due to my lack of time, not lack
> of trust or interest. You'll see in my press to observers that from my point
> of view you have essentially run my units for the last two seasons, and that
> I hoped that having that level of influence over 11 (now 13) pieces made
> continuing to work with me worthwhile for you. My apologies that it comes
> across in any way that I'm disregarding your input.
Well, if a conflict with England is to be expected, then I really
need to revised my suggestion. I will think about it and see
what Ben as to say.
Philippe
Message from Germany to Russia
Hello Eric, I am back again. Unbelieveable but the events over the past few
days really had me tied up. One abandonment which I was unable to undo. One
stupid build which allowed someone to solo and the rest to lose instead of a
certain 4 way.
Putting on my TATICAL map and erasing all history of the game and assuming
that this was no-press and I just took over Russia I would order.
a ser - bul
f rum s ser - bul
f sev s rum
a ukr - gal
a sil s ukr - gal
a war - pru
a stp - nwy
a swe s stp - nwy
f den - bal
a boh - vie
a mun - bur
I usually move tactically as if it were no-press and sort the diplomacy out
afterwards ;-)
I usually play all games in this manner, except this one. I think that that
was my downfall.
Good luck, any questions let me know. I am not privvy to any negotiations
before this move but even if I was I would probably still make these moves
and see what diplomacy would or would not effect them. I would only change
them if you were 100% sure.
p.s. As a player in the game I have an intrest in its outcome. I dont care
who solo's as long as someone does ;-) Stay on top and I am all yours
hehehehe
Tony
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> Can you tell me what I'm looking at? While I have been
> trying to survive between Andy & Eric, I have seen you
> attack France while you told me that you would take
> care of Russia then take out Germany with Russia's help.
Sure. I needed a build. I was completely unsure of Germany, you remember
his broadcast about rolling dice, and I was reasonably certain Russia would
order the supports he'd promised.
So the *only* way I calculated I could get a build - finally, an army - was
to accept the offered Russian supports that meant the end of Germany.
I do not know what you or the other players, or the members of the gallery
would have done. No doubt my inexperience has them ridiculing me enough
already.
But you ask why I did it - that's why.
Now I can attack Russia.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> But you ask why I did it - that's why.
I must say that until your behaviour stopped matching your
press to me, I had rely on you alot and I suddenly felt very
lonely when you started acting strangely. In the end, I figure
you didn't want me in on your grand plan and I stopped
writing to you instead of having you lie to me.
Now that I know what you really want to do, I wonder
what's going to happen with Erik? I really need a break
and would appreciate seeing him move against Andy, but
he's just sitting there and if there isn't a real peace between
you two, I fear he might go after you instead.
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> > But you ask why I did it - that's why.
>
> I must say that until your behaviour stopped matching your
> press to me, I had rely on you alot and I suddenly felt very
> lonely when you started acting strangely. In the end, I figure
> you didn't want me in on your grand plan and I stopped
> writing to you instead of having you lie to me.
:-) My grand plan was to stave off an FR squeeze, which was very nearly a
reality for quite a long time. That threat has, I think, finally passed.
> Now that I know what you really want to do, I wonder
> what's going to happen with Erik? I really need a break
> and would appreciate seeing him move against Andy, but
> he's just sitting there and if there isn't a real peace between
> you two, I fear he might go after you instead.
Well, as far as I can tell, right now I am the *only* power who really *can*
throw the game to Russia, so I don't think it is likely he will attack me.
If you agree with this analysis and care to rewrite in a press to him, it
would not hurt. For now I would not be surprised to see his fleets stay on
shore leave for awhile, while his armies try to creep through the German
centers.
No hard feelings for working on Russia's behalf - when the time comes for me
to ask you to do something, I will let you know.
Good luck.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> :-) My grand plan was to stave off an FR squeeze, which was very nearly a
> reality for quite a long time. That threat has, I think, finally passed.
Given my position, it's funny to see you talked about fearing an FR squeeze ;-)
> Well, as far as I can tell, right now I am the *only* power who really *can*
> throw the game to Russia, so I don't think it is likely he will attack me.
> If you agree with this analysis and care to rewrite in a press to him, it
> would not hurt. For now I would not be surprised to see his fleets stay on
> shore leave for awhile, while his armies try to creep through the German
> centers.
>
> No hard feelings for working on Russia's behalf - when the time comes for me
> to ask you to do something, I will let you know.
>
> Good luck.
OK. Good luck to you too,
Philippe
Message from Austria to France
Hi Erik,
It's been a while since we talked and I would like to confirm
with you what your neighbours seem to think. Have you
really decided to sit tight and limit yourself to playing in the
middle of the board with your three armies?
Ben seem to think you can't afford to attack him as it would
give the game to Russia, and I suspect so does Andy.
Personaly, I don't share their sentiments regarding a russian
solo and more importantly, I'm stuck between two giants and
fighting for my life, so I would really appreciate being given
a break.
Now, I don't expect you to attack Andy just for my sake, but
you should realise that you won't see a better occasion of
doing it and that if you don't attack them, you will be stuck
defending yourself from them later on when they are stronger.
Regards,
Philippe
Message from Austria to Russia
Eric,
Ben is saying he's moving against you and I tend to believe him.
Given the rest of the board, I would expect France to go for
Mun in accord with everyone else unless you can convince him
that he should really attack his neighbours while they aren't
positioned to received him. Otherwise, he will spend the last
part of the game defending himself from two strong neighbours
and it will be really hard for him to survive that kind of situation
(I sent him a not downplaying your chances of solo and pointing
out how Ben & Andy are a threat to him, but I doubt it will be
enough to convince him). Ideally, you would want him to attack
England as you are weaker in the north at the moment, but I
would expect him to attack Andy since it's easier for him to make
gains in the south.
Regarding your question about Ber, I would say that with
England's navy, you have no hope of securing Bal for yourself
and that without control of Bal, all coastal areas around Bal are
going to necessitate a huge investment of units for each one you
wish to retain. So, unless Ber is an easy gain used to compensate
other loss for a year, it pointless to attack it while Den & Swe is
allready at stake.
As for the north in general, I would expect England to convoy
to Hol or Nwy, choosing Norway if he really wish to takeover
all the north, including Stp. Since you can't really protect the
north from an invasion, you have to decide what strategy you
will use. A strong defence that would allow you to get the upper
hand once France moved against England or if France isn't going
to move against England, a weak one to make it possible for
England to safely move against France. Personaly, the difference
between a weak one and a strong one is whether or not you keep
your fleet since you are stuck on the defensive without one. The
best way to keep your fleet safe is to use it to try to block a move
to Bal while freeing Swe for a retreat with Swe-Fin or by
attacking Ska while Swe go for Nwy supported by Stp, depending
on whether or not you want to try sending your fleet to Nwy later.
Regarding France, beside any diplomatic effort to have him attack
his neighbours, the major question is Munich. Not including any
attack he migth decide to initiate against E or I, his obvious moves
this spring is Bur-Ruh supported by Bel & Par-Bur. Unless you
wish to give up Mun, you will need one uncuttable support if Tyr is
free of italian unit and two if it's not the case, so Gal's destruction
or his retreat south is in order.
As for Tyr, losing this territory would be even worst then losing
Mun as it would, not only exposed your western front, but also
directly threathen Tri, Vie & Mun. Since Tri can't be protected
adequately this spring, even though it can also be a problem if it's
taken with an army, we should really make sure Tyr will.
So, even with an english invasion, I still suggest we proceed as
initially suggested. Anyway, when you have had the time to do
your own analysis, let me know what I'm getting wrong.
Yours truly,
Philippe
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
No, I don't necessarily subscribe to the get-the-leader mentality, but I
do like to work with people who make it worth my while. We were doing
well earlier, but I don't know that we're on the same page right now.
Assistance into Munich might have helped me feel differently, but I
suppose you had a fairly decent argument for not doing so. I would have
at least appreciated a heads-up.
In any case, I do understand that EI are about to squeeze me, so I'll
need to deal with one of them and then other. From my perspective, it's
better to get England swinging as far north as I can get him, so don't
expect an immediate attack on London. Give me a turn or two.
Erik
Message from France to England and Italy
Sorry, just catching up. Are you suggesting that I sswing a fleet up
north to help out? I'm perfectly willing to do so, but don't want to
unless I'm invited.
Bur can pop Munich, though not to much avail. Andy, can you try for
Tyrolia again?
Erik
Message from France to Austria
Phillipe:
Good to hear from you. I am not rolling over to let EI take on Russia,
but I did need to recover from a bit of a loss.
Do you have enough Russian support to ensure that you can afford to work
with me should I head toward Italy?
Erik
Message from Italy to England and France
> Sorry, just catching up. Are you suggesting that I sswing a fleet up
> north to help out? I'm perfectly willing to do so, but don't want to
> unless I'm invited.
That is up to Ben, but you REALLY need to pop a fleet and build an army.
Or get a build and build an army...which isnt easy at all right nwo.
> Bur can pop Munich, though not to much avail. Andy, can you try for
> Tyrolia again?
I am going to Tyrolia
Andy
Message from Austria to France
> Good to hear from you. I am not rolling over to let EI take on Russia,
> but I did need to recover from a bit of a loss.
Hope you're done recovering as it can only get harder to
attack Italy as time goes by.
> Do you have enough Russian support to ensure that you can afford to work
> with me should I head toward Italy?
I'm stuck between Italy & Russia, nothing more nothing less.
I & R might decided to play with me or kick me out of the
game; and there's nothing I can do about it. If I happen to be
in position to help, then good for you; but don't plan your
invasion with that in mind. Just consider it a bonus if it
happen ;-) You could try talking to Jason, but you risk losing
the benefit of surprise if you do; wich surprise should net you
Tys in the fall by the way, with all the italian fleets on the wrong
side of the island.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Russia
Eric,
The dl is tonight and I would like to know how you would like to
proceed? As for France, he's fishing for information regarding our
relationship, as part of his evaluation of a french invasion of Italy
and I'm being evasive, trying to dowmplay our collaboration so he
isn't afraid of actually attacking Andy. Has he contacted you?
Yours truly,
Philippe
Message from Austria to Italy
Andy,
Your intent seem clear enough, but have you
really decided to take me out?
Philippe
Message from Austria to Turkey
Jason,
No news from you, so I guess you're working with Andy this year;
but whatever you do, please be wary of a stab by Andy: Ven-Apu,
Ion-Eas, Alb-Ion can quickly see him convoy in your homeland. It's
enough that I'm in that much trouble, I really don't need to see it
happen to you.
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria
Philippe,
> Your intent seem clear enough, but have you
> really decided to take me out?
I dont want to, but you have made it indelibly clear you would prefer to
see the Russian solo, and that is unacceptable.
Help me out here.
Message from Austria to Italy
> I dont want to, but you have made it indelibly clear you would prefer to
> see the Russian solo, and that is unacceptable.
>
> Help me out here.
First, I doubt an eventual russian solo depend on my actions.
Second, if I can't trust you to insure my survival, I can't afford
to go against Russia.
So, do you see any way out of this?
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria
>
> First, I doubt an eventual russian solo depend on my actions.
Then you are being short-sighted.
> Second, if I can't trust you to insure my survival, I can't afford
> to go against Russia.
I spent a year supporting you. Then you decided to attack me and being
tipped off is the only thing that saved my ass.
I have wanted to wrk with you for a while, but when you started supporting
him against me, my actions got pretty limited.
> So, do you see any way out of this?
>
I dont knwo
Andy
Message from Austria to Italy
> > First, I doubt an eventual russian solo depend on my actions.
>
> Then you are being short-sighted.
I do wear glasses, but I meant that what little help I provide
Russia isn't going to permit him to solo.
> > Second, if I can't trust you to insure my survival, I can't afford
> > to go against Russia.
>
> I spent a year supporting you. Then you decided to attack me and being
> tipped off is the only thing that saved my ass.
I totally disagree with this interpretation of what happened,
but it's pretty pointless to argue with you about it.
> I have wanted to wrk with you for a while, but when you started supporting
> him against me, my actions got pretty limited.
Again, I don't share your point of view. I think that supporting
me in words while positionning yourself for a quick take over
of Austria is more in line with what happened.
> > So, do you see any way out of this?
> >
> I dont knwo
Provided Jason can be counted upon, I would think you could
use all those nice fleets of yours to support my interest without
my having to worry about an italian invasion. If the only italian
units bordering me are fleets, with little possibility of convoyed
attack, then the risk of seeing you move against me would be
somewhat mitigated. That is, if you find helping me to be a
worthy goal.
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria
> I do wear glasses, but I meant that what little help I provide
> Russia isn't going to permit him to solo.
Helping him into dots, and defending him from Turkey and myself is HELPING
him solo.
> > I have wanted to wrk with you for a while, but when you started supporting
> > him against me, my actions got pretty limited.
>
> Again, I don't share your point of view. I think that supporting
> me in words while positionning yourself for a quick take over
> of Austria is more in line with what happened.
You seem to think that my units have some sort of long range
component.....and can actually defend you from RANGE.
Aside from the fact that I need to have units next to yours in order to
support you, I have to have sometihng in place in cse he rolls over you.
I asked you what you wanted, and you tired to screw me. And then started
supporting Russia against Turkey and myself.
> > > So, do you see any way out of this?
> > >
> > I dont knwo
>
> Provided Jason can be counted upon, I would think you could
> use all those nice fleets of yours to support my interest without
> my having to worry about an italian invasion. If the only italian
> units bordering me are fleets, with little possibility of convoyed
> attack, then the risk of seeing you move against me would be
> somewhat mitigated. That is, if you find helping me to be a
> worthy goal.
He is one season from rolling over you
I am defending myself
Message from England to France and Italy
Gentlemen -
> > Sorry, just catching up. Are you suggesting that I sswing a fleet up
> > north to help out? I'm perfectly willing to do so, but don't want to
> > unless I'm invited.
>
> That is up to Ben, but you REALLY need to pop a fleet and
> build an army.
>
> Or get a build and build an army...which isnt easy at all right nwo.
>
> > Bur can pop Munich, though not to much avail. Andy, can you try for
> > Tyrolia again?
>
> I am going to Tyrolia
Ok, this is a good plan. Orders will reflect it.
Erik, I don't really need a French fleet - fleets I have plenty. I don't
think you need another army *right now*, though in time you will; perhaps we
could hold off on this decision to see if we get a better chance down the
road. For now the fleet is effective defense should Andy or I attack you,
right where it is.
Ben
Message from Austria to Austria
Regarding my discussion with Andy. I had previously pointed out
I didn't want two italians armies bordering me, so I really believe
he was trying to play both sides of the fence. That being said, the
goal of the current discussion is really to make it look like I didn't
really choose to help Russia solo so I have an angle to play with
if I need to change tactic for some reason.
In truth, I think that helping Russia solo is really my best bet as it
give me a chance to become part of Russia's line instead of being
surrounded by him. I also doubt I can play both side against the
others in the long run, so I need to become an important part of
the front if I want to be part of a draw.
Hopefully, Andy's will think twice before taking me out if there's
some hope of turning me against Russia; but there's a chance this
discussion will simply annoy him.
Message from Russia to Austria
As usual I'm just having trouble finding time.
I did just get a message from France that also indicates an interest in
moving on Italy first, letting England come after me and then he'll worry
about England later. Can't say that I blame him.
I still haven't looked carefully at the map, but I'll try to respond to your
points from memory (I am reading press, I'm just not getting a chance to do
anything with it!)
I completely agree with your analysis in the north -- the question isn't can
I keep the north, the question is how hard to I make it for Ben to make
progress. It's better for me if France doesn't get too big, because at this
point there is almost no way I can get to Tun before him, so I may decide to
make it easy on England in the short term.
Unfortunately my mail client at work doesn't have your move suggestions (I
usually try to leave them there), so I don't have your suggestions re: Gal at
hand. The problem is that the only way to be SURE it retreats south is to use
*all* of the units around there to help it get there.
It comes down to (1) do we support Tri-Bud, (2) how do we attack Tyl, (3) do
I try to take Bla or Bul. Ser-Bul, Sev S Rum-Bla would work, Sev S Rum, Rum S
Ser-Bul would work if Jason is helping Andy with Gal (by either tapping Boh
or moving to Bud). Rum-Bul, Ser S Rum-Bul is also possible, but I'm not sure
if that's a good idea in case it fails.
Sadly, I've written a lot without saying anything. My gut says that Jason
will not be cooperating too closely with Andy (given some press from Jason
saying that Erik will be keeping Andy busy). Given that, I can try Mun-Tyl,
Boh S Mun-Tyl, Sil ???, War S Ukr-Gal, and then either of the fleet movements
listed above. This leaves you free to order Vie S Tri-Bud or Vie S Mun-Tyl
depending on your expectations of Jason (would he order Gal-Boh?).
Since I'm doing this from scratch, I may just be repeating your suggestions
back to you. I know that at least some of the above moves are based on your
suggestions, so hopefully there's a reasonable correlation between our
suggestions.
I'll be busy this afternoon, but I'll try to be responsive.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
Ugh. I'm turning into a nopress player.
I'm devastated to have missed the "I don't even exercise" line. Must be the
Iocane powder affecting my brain.
In short, I'd prefer a method of you taking Den that leaves my fleet alive
but contained (behind Scandinavia), leaves you sufficient forces to defend
your position, but leaves most of your forces active in the west and away
from me. I don't know if that meets your desires, and doubt it does in the
short term even if it's acceptable for the long term.
My general plan at this point is to give you enough room to bolster your
forces and hopefully turn against France. I am reasonably certain that Erik
will give you room to attack me for a season or so, while he tries to make
gains off of Italy, but EIF fighting is very likely. When push comes to
shove, France holding Tunis is really bad for me long term if he also gets
you eliminated, hence the thinking to make quick gains for you to ensure you
don't get trambled if it comes to that. I just want to do it in such a way
that I'm not setting up for a major anti-R campaign.
That's pretty vague, I know. I don't need to try to take either of your
German centers back, and I'm happy to cede Scandinavian territory, though
I'll still try to keep enough forces between you and the Motherland to make a
true invasion difficult. But I'm not sure what to ask of you without knowing
the answer to the original question I asked, which is are you now thinking
StL or CtL (contain the leader), and how quickly might you move on France.
I'll be watching where A Edi goes, but frankly either likely destination
could still be nasty for me, so it's the Fall moves I'll be watching for.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
Sorry, I don't have your mail at hand so don't know your specific
recommendations. But I did read and appreciate it and will look it over again
before submitting final moves.
Overall, strategically do you think it's worth it trying to hold Scandinavia
against Ben to let Erik have a chance to hit him from behind, or let Ben grow
more easily in hopes that he'll then move on Erik? My bets are that Erik will
attack south initially, so my concern about resisting Ben too hard is that if
France gets to Tun and is strong enough to turn north and fight Ben, then
he'll have a serious solo threat.
Just trying to figure out which way to play it strategically. And I miss your
two armies alot right now!
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
Well, being the communicative players we are, I guess we get stuck with these
miscommunications. :) You are right, I should have given you a heads up.
Obviously my moves last season were completely selfish (in part because I
wasn't sure you would move against Ben), appeasing Ben in order to get builds
that help me, but also giving him a position that is stronger than you would
have liked.
I completely understand your desire to move on Andy first, which is why my
offer was as much about the future as the past. Just keep in mind that Mun is
happy to leave you alone if you feel the need to press into Hol, or
potentially to take a more active stand if you would like to own some
oceanfront property on the Baltic (i.e., Kiel).
AI will point out that Andy stands to only pick up a single build at best
this fall, and it'll be a year at best before you get builds from him.
Whereas Ben could grab quite a few centers off of me (which would translate
to builds really close to you) quickly, especially if he forces the disband
of my only northern fleet. I'm sure you are aware of these things, and I'm
obviously a biased source myself, so I'm not trying to be too pushy about
this. Certainly I don't expect anything obviously anti-Ben this Spring, but
do keep your options open for Fall.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
Perhaps this would have been funny had I sent it closer to the time of your
message, but the "no wrestling" line made me think of the following reply:
LET'S GET READY TO RUMMMMMMMMBBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLEEEEE!
That said, I still remain open to negotiations. We can go with real attempts
to come to agreement about moves, or we can do the more stylized "You tell
that Turk that me and my boys are coming after him! I pity da fool that tries
to take the Black Sea. We're gonna get him in the ring and twist him into a
pretzel. Arrr. Grrr. <Muscle flexing poses>".
--- Eric
P.S. Sorry, I've just got WWF-style wrestling on the brain.
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy,
Well, I'm doing my best to keep up the "contact each player each season", but
I still struggle with what to talk to you about.
I don't expect you to tell me anything about your plans, so I won't ask you.
I think I have a sense of what England, Turkey and Austria are each up to.
But Erik seems a mystery. He could go north, south or hold back, but they all
have significant disadvantages depending on what eventuality he's most
worried about. History says that he'll continue attacking you, but StL
ettiquite (sp) says he should hold back. What do you think is likely? Or is
that too much info to share with me at this point?
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Russia
> As usual I'm just having trouble finding time.
>
> I did just get a message from France that also indicates an interest in
> moving on Italy first, letting England come after me and then he'll worry
> about England later. Can't say that I blame him.
Well, any moves against his neighbours is preferable to his
remaining neutral. I'm afraid that if he stay put long enough
he will get use to it :-)
> I still haven't looked carefully at the map, but I'll try to respond to your
> points from memory (I am reading press, I'm just not getting a chance to do
> anything with it!)
>
> I completely agree with your analysis in the north -- the question isn't can
> I keep the north, the question is how hard to I make it for Ben to make
> progress. It's better for me if France doesn't get too big, because at this
> point there is almost no way I can get to Tun before him, so I may decide to
> make it easy on England in the short term.
With a good chance of France moving against Italy, I would
suggest making sure your fleet will be destroyed without
making it look like you wished it so. Den-Hel, Stp-Nwy
supported by Swe is totally ineffective, yet it can look like
a gamble on your part. Once in Hel, it's pretty safe to
assume England will make sure to eliminate your fleet, wich
would prevent him from sending his fleets too far in your
direction. Of course, in the long run losing your fleet in the
north hurt you, but we can always hope to rebuild a navy
later on, even having me dislodge a russian army so it can
be converted into a fleet when you aren't getting builds if
we need to.
> Unfortunately my mail client at work doesn't have your move suggestions (I
> usually try to leave them there), so I don't have your suggestions re: Gal at
> hand. The problem is that the only way to be SURE it retreats south is to use
> *all* of the units around there to help it get there.
Yet, not to dislodged it, and maybe forced its destruction,
mean that you have to occupy all the sc bordering Gal and
that we can't totally trust the support from all adjacent
territories. Unless you expect Jason to select Gal for
removal soon, I don't think you can afford to wait before
taking step to deal with Gal.
> It comes down to (1) do we support Tri-Bud, (2) how do we attack Tyl, (3) do
> I try to take Bla or Bul. Ser-Bul, Sev S Rum-Bla would work, Sev S Rum, Rum S
> Ser-Bul would work if Jason is helping Andy with Gal (by either tapping Boh
> or moving to Bud). Rum-Bul, Ser S Rum-Bul is also possible, but I'm not sure
> if that's a good idea in case it fails.
>
> Sadly, I've written a lot without saying anything. My gut says that Jason
> will not be cooperating too closely with Andy (given some press from Jason
> saying that Erik will be keeping Andy busy). Given that, I can try Mun-Tyl,
> Boh S Mun-Tyl, Sil ???, War S Ukr-Gal, and then either of the fleet movements
> listed above. This leaves you free to order Vie S Tri-Bud or Vie S Mun-Tyl
> depending on your expectations of Jason (would he order Gal-Boh?).
>
> Since I'm doing this from scratch, I may just be repeating your suggestions
> back to you. I know that at least some of the above moves are based on your
> suggestions, so hopefully there's a reasonable correlation between our
> suggestions.
>
> I'll be busy this afternoon, but I'll try to be responsive.
OK. I will deal with 3 first. However cooperative or
uncooperative Jason will be, I think Bul(ec) is a dead end
of the worst kind. If he get Aeg to Con, his control of Bla
& Con will allow him to block your expansion for a long
time, without some lucky guess on your part, and put your
fleet in Bul(ec) at risk.
Next, given my opinion regarding Rum's destination, I must
say that I don't think sending Ukr to Gal is a good idea as it
would be needed to cover Rum in the fall. My original plan
was to order Ukr-Rum & Ser-Bul in the hope of bouncing
Jason's attempt at getting Rum back. Unless Jason's been
misleading you, we would have one less army to worry
about in the fall; but if no attempt on Rum is made from
either Gal or Bul, Ukr would end up in Rum and allow Gal
to retreat to Ukr causing all sorts of trouble. I tend to think
that the risk is very limited since he will surely want to cut
a possible support from Rum; but if you are worried about
the possibility, I would suggest going for Sil-Gal supported by
War instead of War-Gal supported by Sil like I originally
suggested, this way an army would be in position to cover
Mos if necessary, or simply hold in Ukr and accept to see
Gal go back to Rum.
As for 1 & 2, unless you tell me that you want to leave Gal
alone this spring, the attack on Tyr as to come from Mun
and be supported by Boh while Tri go to Bud. As for Vie,
it depend. The turkish army in Gal border 4 sc and I would
expect Jason to either try for Bud or Rum, both also
bordering 4 sc. I think it's more likely that Gal will try for
Rum, so we could decide to make sure Mun-Tyr succeed,
even against a supported attack by Andy. Since an army
in Tyr making it easier to regain Tri in the fall, it's tempting
to try it; but since this extra army is only going to be usefull
if Tri-Bud also succeed, I prefer to bet on Andy only using
Pie for Tyr then on Jason leaving Bud alone.
Since I migth not be there to check my email later on, I'm
ordering Tri-Bud supported by Vie at the moment; but as
soon as you can, let me know what you think of all this in
case I get to read it in time to change my orders if you so
wishes.
Yours truly,
Philippe
Message from Russia to Austria
I'll see if I get any feedback from Ben about the north. There may be a way
to disband the fleet that he agrees to that I can live with. If that gets
worked out, I'll probably just go with it and then tell you about it after
the fact.
> However cooperative or uncooperative Jason will be,
> I think Bul(ec) is a dead end of the worst kind.
Yeah, I have to agree with this.
> Next, given my opinion regarding Rum's destination, I must
> say that I don't think sending Ukr to Gal is a good idea as it
> would be needed to cover Rum in the fall. My original plan
> was to order Ukr-Rum & Ser-Bul in the hope of bouncing
> Jason's attempt at getting Rum back.
I see. I'm inferring you said Rum-Bla, Sev S Rum-Bla. If that's the case,
then as you note, I don't mind Jason getting to Rum, and Ukr-Gal is certainly
bad in that instance. Perhaps Ukr S War-Gal.
> Unless Jason's been misleading you,
Quite possible, but Erik seemed to echo what Jason said about France's plans,
so there is some confirmation there.
> I would suggest going for Sil-Gal supported by
> War instead of War-Gal supported by Sil like I originally
> suggested, this way an army would be in position to cover
> Mos if necessary, or simply hold in Ukr and accept to see
> Gal go back to Rum.
I would like to keep Sil in place to ensure I can hold Mun. But I'll have to
look at the possible impact of having Gal/Ukr/Sev trying to eliminate Rum if
I let him go there. Ukr-Rum trying to bounce him is not an unreasonable
choice, though that's where the idea of Sev S Rum, Rum S Ser-Bul came from.
(Allows Ukr-Gal to succeed with certainty, while maintaining a chance of
picking up Bul at the same time).
> As for 1 & 2, unless you tell me that you want to leave Gal
> alone this spring, the attack on Tyr as to come from Mun
> and be supported by Boh while Tri go to Bud. As for Vie,
> it depend.
No, we need to hit Gal. The gamble on Bud is entirely yours to make. If you
want to gamble on Gal-Rum, that works for me, but I think you probably should
just go ahead with Vie S Tri-Bud if you want to ensure that you keep two
units (if Tri-Bud bounces, then you are down a unit that would be nearly
impossible to replace, since your home centers would either be covered or
unowned). Just tell me what you want to do and I'll deal with it either way.
> I prefer to bet on Andy only using
> Pie for Tyr then on Jason leaving Bud alone.
As I said, your call.
Any thoughts on the Sev S Rum option?
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Russia
> Any thoughts on the Sev S Rum option?
I think not going for Bla when it is a sure bet would be a
mistake that could cost you the south if Jason send Aeg
to Con; but I also agree that keeping your army in Sil is
important for Mun.
If Jason isn't too worried about Andy, I would expect
him to go for either:
1) Aeg-Con, Gal-Bud & Bul-Rum supported by Bla
or
2) Aeg-Con, Bla-Sev, Gal-Rum supported by Bul
In both cases, a turkish army attack Rum and bounce
with Ukr-Rum. Of course, I might be wrong about this
and accepting the presence of a turkish army in Rum
this fall by ordering Ukr to hold might be more to your
taste as Gal would get destroyed anyway if the attack
on Rum come from Bul.
So, I suggest you forget about moving Sil and go for
War-Gal supported by Sil with either Ukr hold or
Ukr-Rum.
Good luck,
Philippe
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric
> Well, I'm doing my best to keep up the "contact each player each season", but
> I still struggle with what to talk to you about.
I figure you will just pump me for info in your self depricating manner.
btw...I will be in SF in February.
> I don't expect you to tell me anything about your plans, so I won't ask you.
Fair.
> I think I have a sense of what England, Turkey and Austria are each up to.
What do you think they are doing?
> But Erik seems a mystery. He could go north, south or hold back, but they all
> have significant disadvantages depending on what eventuality he's most
> worried about. History says that he'll continue attacking you, but StL
> ettiquite (sp) says he should hold back. What do you think is likely? Or is
> that too much info to share with me at this point?
We will find out wont we...:-)
Message from Germany to Russia
Hi Eric.
No matter which way you look at it you have to swap SC for SC with Ben.
Norway and Denmark as lost. One advantage is that England cant hurt you to
much with just fleets. I am guessing that he will be convoying to Holland
and pushing for the NWG. You really want EF fighting. I dont see that
happening in the short term. How is your relationship with Italy? The moves
I mentioned were based on Russia versus the rest of the world.
Diplomacy wise I would hook up with Italy and go after Turkey and Austria,
whilst at the same time keeping your losses/gains in the north in balance.
A strong Italy who can hold up France may force Ben to go after Erik. For
now BEn will stick to the north. Italy I am sure would jump at an alliance.
I think that you and hime need to clear out VIE/TRI this year for sure.
Maybe an attack of ven - tri supported by ADR with you covering TYR and
cutting VIE whilst sev hits bla supported by rum, war hits gal, ser hits
bul, ion hits aeg and alb hits gre. PIE should move to VEN. WIth you in TYR
then vie falls as does tri. You may end up in BUL and or BLA. Italy is able
to push his fleets into TYS and ION for the fall.
It is the best I can come up with for now. You may lose DEN/MUN but pick up
VIE in return.
My gut feeling though says cover NWY, take BER hold onto MUN and work out a
nice deal around vie/tri/bul/bla.
Ben would be a fool not to go for DEN and NWY, you just have to limit the
damage. Either way you lose two up north but gain one. You need to
compensate the loss of the one down south. VIE seems the best bet. Anything
that comes out of Turkey will be an added bonus. I wouldnt worry about the
EF fighting/alliance on the short term. Get Italy on your side for this year
and sort the mess out next year. Damage control and unit concentration for
gains next year should I believe be the strategy. Diplomacy with Italy up
front for now, worry about EF later. At worst you end up in an EFR draw.
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Taking your recommendations/wishes under advisement - I think you will be
pleased with my moves, as I try to thread this tricky needle.
In other words:
as you wish.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
Andy's suggestion for my moves made alot of sense - that's what I'm doing.
Ben
Message from Russia to Italy
What's in SF in Feb? I thought that was Denver.
I always pump people for information. It's a habit, probably a good one.
I'm also usually self-deprecating by habit as well, though that's not as
clearly a good one.
In answer to your questions: I expect Turkey to fight me, I expect Austria
to continue to grope for survival between us, and I'm unsure what's coming
from Ben. I'm certain he (Ben) will do something to me in Scandinavia, but
how bad it will be for me, and how much he will hedge against France (and
vice-versa) will be a surprise. How's that for insight. :)
Here's something I hope you will respond to (though I don't need a response
prior to the moves): What would you need to actually start working with me?
As I look at the fact that I can't get through Turkey without him getting
harassed (by you), and I likely can't get any further west regardless I'd
like to know what it would take. I'm not looking to make any specific deals
yet, so you can state wishes, demands, whatever. I just want to get a sense
of what you would realistically like to see come out of the current
position, so I can take it into account when making my moves in the next
few seasons.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
Whoops! Errors in the orders. They're in now, so I can send press again.
Clarification on the last message: I didn't mean to say that I'm not
willing to negotiate now. I simply thought it would be easier to start with
desires/demands and work our way to negotiating from there.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
Well, after studying the map this evening, I came up with a slightly
different twist. So I submitted orders with an error and went late. :)
After seeing that, I went back and fixed the orders. I'm going to go with
some orders that should ensure the destruction of A Gal, and won't get me
in Black, but should still give me a 50-50 chance of taking the Black in
the Fall. Specifically, Sev-Arm, Rum-Sev, Ser-Rum, Ukr S Ser-Rum. It's an
odd set of moves, but it should put pressure on Turkey's home centers in
Fall, which may allow taking Bla or sneaking into Ank.
Since Erik is late again, you may get a chance to comment on these orders
before the moves process. Let me know if you have any "what the hell are
you thinking" comments about this moveset. :)
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Russia
> Since Erik is late again, you may get a chance to comment on these orders
> before the moves process. Let me know if you have any "what the hell are
> you thinking" comments about this moveset. :)
Weird, but might work. You're trading the risk of no bounce
in Rum with Gal sent to Ukr for no army in Ser to help with
Tri in the fall and I can't say I like this trade very much. On
the other hand, if the takeover of Bla in the fall work, you're
one step of ahead then you would have been as Sev will stay
open for a build whenever you get the chance.
On the northern front, what have you been able to manage?
Philippe
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
Let me give you more of my thinking (I sent that last message as I was
getting off the computer to go to bed).
The problems I was trying to balance are these:
First, if I were Jason I would order Bul S Bla-Rum, not Bla S Bul-Rum. The
chance of having A Bul disbanded is just not worth taking. So if we assume
he moves that way, then Rum-Bla, Sev S Rum-Bla, Ser-Bul, Gal-Bud leaves Rum
open for a retreat. While I do end up in Bla, with a hopeless army in Rum
Jason has to order Rum-Sev (cutting support for F Bla) and then Con S
Ank-Bla or vice-versa. Net result is that I lose Bla, and Jason ends up
with three fleets on Bla if he wants (he's losing an army but likely not
losing an SC) Bla, Con, Ank).
If Jason does move Bul-Rum, Bla S Bul-Rum, then your suggested bounce
(Ukr-Rum) works, but if I do Ukr-Rum and he moves as we discussed above,
Ukr-Rum is not bounced (Rum-Bul succeeds, so Bla-Rum does not bounce
Ukr-Rum) and Jason ends up in Ukr.
With Sev-Arm, Rum-Sev, I threaten Ank and Bla. If I guess right on how to
respond, then he ends up with a maximum of two fleets on the Bla, which
slows him down some.
So I'm agreeing with your assessment that he's like to order one or the
other of those moves. If he orders Bul-Ser then we're in a weird (and bad)
position, so I'm definitely betting that he's not doing that.
If Ser being potentially open is too big a gamble, I could try Ser-Bul,
Ukr-Rum, Sev-Arm, Rum-Sev. The downside is that if he moves Bul-Rum with
support, then he's got a two units on Sev. He can't take it (I can cut all
the supports) but it means that I can't force Black without losing Rum in
the process. Hmm. But if we abandon the idea of taking back Bla, then we
can take Rum while we have a chance of holding Bul, potentially forcing him
down a unit. That could work, though there's more guessing on our part.
Let me know what you think.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Austria
[resend with a fix]
>If Jason does move Bul-Rum, Bla S Bul-Rum, then your suggested bounce
>(Ukr-Rum) works, but if I do Ukr-Rum and he moves as we discussed above,
>Ukr-Rum is not bounced (Rum-Bul succeeds, so Bla-Rum does not bounce
>Ukr-Rum) and Jason ends up in Ukr.
No idea if you even want to read this closely, but in the parentheses it
should say "Rum-Bla" succeeds, not "Rum-Bul".
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Russia
Since both Bul & Bla can't be protected against a decisive
attack this spring, the only reason to favor the protection
of Bul over Bla is the possibility of losing it, but he's got no
reason to do so as Bul can retreat to Gre since it's unlikely
it's going to be attacked (in fact, I'm pretty sure they would
like nothing more then see Ser commit suicide with Ser-Gre).
In consequence, I would expect him to make sure either
Gal or Bul attack Rum as a bet on the low probability you
would try to get Bla from Sev as a strong move. As for Bla,
it would depend on what he think you will do, even Bla-Rum
& Bul-Rum as a self-bounce to keep both Bla & Bul in place
while Gal is playing elsewhere is a valid strategy. With your
plan, if he goes for that last choice, you get in Rum and we
lose the support of Ser for the fall.
Anyway, let's hope you make the best decision,
Philippe.
P.-S. Still no feedback from you concerning the north, am I
suppose to butt out of it or were you simply more concerned
with the south ;-)
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> What's in SF in Feb? I thought that was Denver.
I will be in SF on business. Not a Dip event.
>
> In answer to your questions: I expect Turkey to fight me, I expect Austria
> to continue to grope for survival between us, and I'm unsure what's coming
> from Ben. I'm certain he (Ben) will do something to me in Scandinavia, but
> how bad it will be for me, and how much he will hedge against France (and
> vice-versa) will be a surprise. How's that for insight. :)
Probably a pretty good bet.
> Here's something I hope you will respond to (though I don't need a response
> prior to the moves): What would you need to actually start working with me?
Not sure...and that is an honest answer.
> As I look at the fact that I can't get through Turkey without him getting
> harassed (by you), and I likely can't get any further west regardless I'd
> like to know what it would take. I'm not looking to make any specific deals
> yet, so you can state wishes, demands, whatever. I just want to get a sense
> of what you would realistically like to see come out of the current
> position, so I can take it into account when making my moves in the next
> few seasons.
I think you view your position as not nearly as strong as it is.
Message from Russia to Austria
Re the north:
LOL! No, wasn't meaning you should butt out. I just don't have much info. All
I've heard is what I've already shared with you. Erik implies he's heading
towards Italy. Ben says that he's coming after me, but sounds like he's
looking to do it in a way that doesn't commit him to the north (meaning, he's
worried about Erik too). I doubt I've got an "alliance" with either of them,
but both sound willing to at least consider working with me once I've been
"pruned" back a little. :)
Re the south:
I assumed that Andy WILL move to Gre. If you think there's a real chance he
won't, why is that? F Gre can offer support to Bul (I've been assuming that
taking Bul is not really possible whatever happens elsewhere) and it also
puts Andy in position to start taking Turkish centers if Turkey falls too
hard. (Andy hasn't told me anything about what he will do -- this is just my
expectation.)
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
> I will be in SF on business. Not a Dip event.
Ahh. I grew up there, but I live 1.5 hours south now, so I won't offer to
play host while you're here. :) Have a good time and let me know if you want
any tourist-type recommendations.
>> Here's something I hope you will respond to (though I don't need a
>> response prior to the moves): What would you need to actually start
>> working with me?
> Not sure...and that is an honest answer.
Fair enough. But do keep it in mind, and let me know if you think of
anything. I've been looking at things like supporting you further into
Austria, but that's not obviously something that helps cooperation (though it
does help you). I've also looked at things like cooperation in Turkey while
continuing to try to hold Austria for myself. That's more likely to be
interesting to you if Erik is coming after you than if you're not under any
immediate pressure.
Do you have any thoughts or observations about the game overall that you can
share at this point? Is it a good, standard, or boring game? That kind of
thing. I think I've mentioned my thoughts already: for how much Diplomatic
influence I've had I think I should have better position, that early AI
hostilities surprised me in their intensity, etc., so hopefully that's not
sounding like a one-sided request for info.
> I think you view your position as not nearly as strong as it is.
Well, that would be the same personality trait as the self-depricating one
that I use for info-pumping, I guess. Half-full-glass guy that I am, I see
that I have yet to gain a stable stalemate line that I recognize, and while I
can see potential paths to more centers, I don't see any likely paths that
get me to 18. So while my position is not *weak*, I don't see significant
growth going forward, and while unlikely, elimination is stil possible. So
the strength of my position is directly related to the strength of the StL I
assume is out there. And since I sense that no one is ready to jump on the
"let's help Russia" bandwagon in the short term, I'm assuming it's fairly
strong and am trying to think of plans that are appropriate to that
situation. If you guys all fall on each other in chaotic fighting, I'll
happily change my outlook. :)
Take care,
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Russia
> Re the north:
>
> LOL! No, wasn't meaning you should butt out. I just don't have much info. All
> I've heard is what I've already shared with you. Erik implies he's heading
> towards Italy. Ben says that he's coming after me, but sounds like he's
> looking to do it in a way that doesn't commit him to the north (meaning, he's
> worried about Erik too). I doubt I've got an "alliance" with either of them,
> but both sound willing to at least consider working with me once I've been
> "pruned" back a little. :)
So, you might not need to lose your fleet then.
Good, really good :-)
> Re the south:
>
> I assumed that Andy WILL move to Gre. If you think there's a real chance he
> won't, why is that? F Gre can offer support to Bul (I've been assuming that
> taking Bul is not really possible whatever happens elsewhere) and it also
> puts Andy in position to start taking Turkish centers if Turkey falls too
> hard. (Andy hasn't told me anything about what he will do -- this is just my
> expectation.)
Didn't hear anything regarding Gre, just went
with my expectation. No point rushing to help
Bul if you force it's destruction by doing so.
Philippe
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> > I will be in SF on business. Not a Dip event.
>
> Ahh. I grew up there, but I live 1.5 hours south now, so I won't offer to
> play host while you're here. :) Have a good time and let me know if you want
> any tourist-type recommendations.
Well...I have been there a couple of times.
Where are you Monterey/Santa Cruz?
> >> Here's something I hope you will respond to (though I don't need a
> >> response prior to the moves): What would you need to actually start
> >> working with me?
>
> > Not sure...and that is an honest answer.
>
> Fair enough. But do keep it in mind, and let me know if you think of
> anything. I've been looking at things like supporting you further into
> Austria, but that's not obviously something that helps cooperation (though it
> does help you). I've also looked at things like cooperation in Turkey while
> continuing to try to hold Austria for myself. That's more likely to be
> interesting to you if Erik is coming after you than if you're not under any
> immediate pressure.
Yes...this is a very intresting quandry to try to predict.
> Do you have any thoughts or observations about the game overall that you can
> share at this point? Is it a good, standard, or boring game?
if the French werent late every turn it would be moving much faster.
So far it has been pretty good.
The experience levels are showing themselves in intresting ways.
That kind of
> thing. I think I've mentioned my thoughts already: for how much Diplomatic
> influence I've had I think I should have better position, that early AI
> hostilities surprised me in their intensity, etc., so hopefully that's not
> sounding like a one-sided request for info.
No....it isnt.
>
> > I think you view your position as not nearly as strong as it is.
>
> Well, that would be the same personality trait as the self-depricating one
> that I use for info-pumping, I guess. Half-full-glass guy that I am, I see
> that I have yet to gain a stable stalemate line that I recognize, and while I
> can see potential paths to more centers, I don't see any likely paths that
> get me to 18.
I will write you a note about this.
So while my position is not *weak*, I don't see significant
> growth going forward, and while unlikely, elimination is stil possible. So
> the strength of my position is directly related to the strength of the StL I
> assume is out there. And since I sense that no one is ready to jump on the
> "let's help Russia" bandwagon in the short term, I'm assuming it's fairly
> strong and am trying to think of plans that are appropriate to that
> situation. If you guys all fall on each other in chaotic fighting, I'll
> happily change my outlook. :)
I bet you will...:-)
take care
Andy
Message from Russia to Austria
> Didn't hear anything regarding Gre, just went
> with my expectation. No point rushing to help
> Bul if you force it's destruction by doing so.
Interesting point. Tactically I don't think them losing Bul because of F Gre
is that big a problem if they are cooperating; they would still have a three
strength attack that guarantees them retaking it in the Fall with (Gal
retreats to Rum, then Bla and Gre support Rum-Bul in Fall). Jason might not
like the idea of losing a unit, but he already disbanded Ser instead of
retreating into Gre, so that also influenced why I thought Gre was for sure
Andy's. However Andy expects Spa-Wes -- which may well happen -- then Andy
might leave Ion in place for defense.
Ultimately it's all a guessing game; I don't have enough info about how Andy
and Jason are or are not cooperating to make a real guess. If I take Bla and
Andy takes Gre, Jason will end up with A Rum, A Bul and a friendly F Gre,
which means that I can't take Bul or hold Bla, so the shift to Arm is better.
If they don't have F Gre, me having A Ser and F Bla is much better, since
there is a potential attack available on Bul.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
Your input is requested:
You suggested Sev S Rum, Rum S Ser-Bul, Ser-Bul.
So I assume this means you expect Bla S Bul-Rum, Bul-Rum, Gal-??? (probably
-Bud), yes?
I'm asking because there are two things I'm weighing: (1) would Jason really
order Bla S Bul-Rum when that might lose Bul (I was expecting Bul S Bla-Rum)?
and (2) will Andy move Ion-Gre to support Jason or will he leave it in place
in case Erik attacks him? If Andy is going to leave Gre open, it gives me a
lot more to think about in terms of how to press Jason. So I'd like to hear
your thoughts on how likely that move is.
And thanks for the reminder to try to work with Italy. Andy has been pretty
clear that he won't work with the board leader, so I haven't been trying hard
at all (Bad diplomat, Eric!). Thanks to your reminder, I've started up
serious communications again. I think he also doesn't like the fact that I've
been working with Austria, not just because it hurts him, but because Austria
and he really seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot with one another.
So are you still in contact with any other players at the moment?
Sorry to read about all your problems with the other games. I follow vtgroup
pretty closely (as I do all my incoming press) but I've tried to focus my
diplomacy-related press sending on games that I'm supposed to be playing in.
:)
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
> Where are you Monterey/Santa Cruz?
Santa Cruz R' Us.
> if the French werent late every turn it would be moving much faster.
Well, that is true. I'm not helping much myself those. If I actually looked
at the board immediately after the preceeding deadline rather than right
before the next deadline, I'd maybe even get orders in ahead of time. I did
get my last build orders in days in advance without wait set, but I have been
very deadline driven in terms of when I start paying real attention to the
board. Not a good trait.
> So far it has been pretty good.
That's good to hear. With the delays, the apparent AI problems and Jason's
maniacal infatuation with your centers I thought it might be a fairly painful
game for you.
> The experience levels are showing themselves in intresting ways.
I'm not sure I have a strong grasp on people's experience overall. I
certainly see a huge difference in styles among the different players that I
don't think are all chalked up to experience -- though with Tony gone, the
style variety is significantly reduced! Did you get much of a chance to work
with him? Wow, very unusual (to me) style. I think he's a good player,
especially tactically, but his diplomacy was always quite suspect. :)
--- Eric
Message from Italy to Russia
> > Where are you Monterey/Santa Cruz?
>
> Santa Cruz R' Us.
I love where you live.
My favorite sushi place in the US is in Santa Cruz....I cante even
remember its name, but its overlooks the water. A friend took me there
when I was visiting her while she did her PhD at UCSC.
Also, one of my best friends went to undergrad there....the last time I
was there I got to the place that overlooks all the intermural fields and
the ocean and called him just to tomrment him that I was there.
>
> > if the French werent late every turn it would be moving much faster.
>
> Well, that is true. I'm not helping much myself those. If I actually looked
> at the board immediately after the preceeding deadline rather than right
> before the next deadline, I'd maybe even get orders in ahead of time. I did
> get my last build orders in days in advance without wait set, but I have been
> very deadline driven in terms of when I start paying real attention to the
> board. Not a good trait.
You arent late on every turn. Even retreats and builds.
>
> > So far it has been pretty good.
>
> That's good to hear. With the delays, the apparent AI problems and Jason's
> maniacal infatuation with your centers I thought it might be a fairly painful
> game for you.
Other than the delays....I face the problems I have had with Phillippe and
Jason every time I step to a board in FtF....reputation does that.
> > The experience levels are showing themselves in intresting ways.
>
> I'm not sure I have a strong grasp on people's experience overall.
Give me a rundown of the players and where you think they are...:-)
I
> certainly see a huge difference in styles among the different players that I
> don't think are all chalked up to experience -- though with Tony gone, the
> style variety is significantly reduced!
I would agree with this statement.
Did you get much of a chance to work
> with him? Wow, very unusual (to me) style. I think he's a good player,
> especially tactically, but his diplomacy was always quite suspect. :)
Tony was the best email player at the board.
His style works with most people, you fall into the minority, who believe
it suspect.
Andy
Message from Germany to Russia
My move suggestions were twofolod. One where you pretend the whole world is
hostile and diplome afterwards. The other suggestion was if you were allied
with Italy.
Yes, I gave up on AI from the very start. Just couldnt get those twop to
work together even when it was needed. Italy did help at one stage so he is
certainly open to ideas.
Italy may indeed be worried about a french attack. Basically I think he
needs a build and fast, play on that. TRI is there for the taking. He needs
to keep ION in place to at least slow the frenchman down. COnvince him that
if France moves to far east then Ben will attack him from behind.
He knows you and BEn are close so he should swallow that. You need him to
assist you this spring for sure. Offer him to cut VIE and maybe even support
him into TRI from SER.
I fear he may call off the attack and move ION to TYS and ALB - ION
supported by ADR.
As I said your main aim is damgage control. For every SC lost this year you
need to regain one. At least keep forces concentrated for an offensive next
year. SER is out on a limb and BUD is lost.
By cutting TRI/VIE and GAL you can at least bounce SER in BUD for the
spring.
So in alliance with Italy I would now suggest RUM - BLA supported by SEV.
WAR - GAL supported by UKR. BOH - VIE and get Italy to attack TRI, SER -
BUD.
I usually tend to play my games where I assume the whole world is hostile
unless I have a very good ally/allies. Italy I believe is your key to
success. If you would have stuck with me when you first turned against me
then you wouldnt be in this mess ;-)
Your north is in real danger. Turkey and Austria offer you the best growth.
With EF on friendly terms the future is a little bleak. I think giving up on
Denmark and MUN offers you the best choice of forcing EF troops to clash in
central europe. Let them eat off each other.
There I would probably go den - kie and attack BER from MUN supported by
SIL.
Cover NWY wuith two units just to slow him down a little. You need to make
up down south.
BER retreating to BAL isnt good but he may move there anyway and force you
out of DEN. You could gamble and attack BER with two and try for the bounce
in BAL. Have you tried getting BEn to convoy to holland with an offer of an
alliance against france? I know he wanted to move of France and France
doesnt trust him to much. For now they are out of each others hair.
Maybe you can convince him to get back to MAO and ENG and move SKA to NTH
for convoy in the fall. A lot of diploming need there. I however pushed him
from day one to look north. I am amazed he still has a chance to do so. But
hey thats what you get for not siding with Germany ;-)
If I were him I would stay north and go for scandinavia and stp in the short
term. That is why I think he will convoy to HOL. No doubt Erik is asking him
to convoy to DEN or NWY.
I have not spoken to anyone else. My money is still on you but you have a
difficult year ahead.
Tony
Message from Russia to Italy
> My favorite sushi place in the US is in Santa Cruz....I cant even
> remember its name, but its overlooks the water. A friend took me there
> when I was visiting her while she did her PhD at UCSC.
How long ago was this? That sounds like Paradise Sushi in Capitola Beach, but
Paradise is pretty new, so I'm not sure. My favorite place in town now is
called Shogun, it's a new place right on the mall downtown. But SF is no
slouch on the Sushi front either -- Ebisu on 9th Ave between Irving and
Lincoln is one of my all time favorite Sushi places.
> Also, one of my best friends went to undergrad there....the last time I
> was there I got to the place that overlooks all the intermural fields
> and the ocean and called him just to torment him that I was there.
Yeah, I'm spoiled wrt/that. I work at UCSC, and for the first several years
there my office looked out right over that view. Now I'm more in the central
part of the campus, but I do get to the East Field House area several times a
week.
> You arent late on every turn. Even retreats and builds.
That is true. And I don't think I've been more than about 5 minutes late --
just delays or errors in the delivery of my last minute order submissions.
It's almost funny; it sure seems like it would take some actual intent to be
so consistently late.
> Other than the delays....I face the problems I have had with Phillippe
> and Jason every time I step to a board in FtF....reputation does that.
Interesting. I hadn't really thought much about how that can become an
ongoing phenomenon and something you would actually get used to. Jason seems
to be fairly new to online play, so I don't know if he had much to go on
rep-wise to distinguish us.
> > I'm not sure I have a strong grasp on people's experience overall.
>
> Give me a rundown of the players and where you think they are...:-)
Ben's and Philippe are the ones that surprise me the most. I saw that Ben was
in the most recently ended "teachme" game, so thought he might be
inexperienced, but he strikes me as fairly knowledgeable. That could be just
aptitude though. Some people just have personalities that make them seem
experienced when they are not, so that's why I'm not sure it's experience vs.
ability. Philippe seems to have experience, but his negotiations style made
me wonder if that was true, or if he was primarily a FtF player. (I'll put
some detail into the EoG on that -- I don't mean it as a putdown). Erik is
hard to read because he's not around much, but then I followed his press in
comments, and in that sense knew something of what to expect. Jason declared
himself to be a newbie, and I assumed that to be accurate, but he's done some
things that make it clear to me that he's not as naive as he paints himself.
Playing with you has been interesting as well. I completely see what makes
you a really strong FtF player, and I can also see how those same strengths
are not as effective in the email realm.
> Tony was the best email player at the board.
I certainly am not going to refute that statement. He was quite good, and it
was both fun and maddening to play with and against him.
> His style works with most people, you fall into the minority, who
> believe it suspect.
For whatever reason, his initial diplomacy did not sway a lot of people (at
least not for more than a turn or two), and I think that was his downfall.
What I mean by his diplomacy being suspect (and you probably understood this)
is that it was clear from early on that his Diplomacy only bore relationships
to what he wanted others to do, not what he was going to do himself. Had he
gotten more people to work with him early on, the discontinuity between his
agreements and his moves may have been less pronounced.
As I reread that, I realize it might be how you would describe my play as
well. The difference to me is that I was really trying to build an RI, and
was just constantly sidetracked by all these unreasonably good offers from AT
that they continued to offer and deliver on. Once it became a more specific
strategy, I changed the way I negotiated with you -- basically I didn't want
to negotiate anything I knew I wasn't willing to do. Tony has no problem
doing that, which in situations such as the one he ended up in here can be a
liability rather than a skill.
So am I sharing too much? :)
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
Thanks for all the input. Here's my thoughts:
> My move suggestions were twofolod. One where you pretend the whole world
> is hostile and diplome afterwards. The other suggestion was if you were
> allied with Italy.
Well, Italy is still not necessarily interested in cooperation, though I will
admit I have not made any specific offers. I have certainly talked to him
about a French attack, but I'm not going to try to scare him too much -- he's
a good enough player to see the alternatives.
> Yes, I gave up on AI from the very start. Just couldnt get those two to
> work together even when it was needed. Italy did help at one stage so he
> is certainly open to ideas.
I was sure that they were cooperating to mislead me when they both talked
about how much they were not getting along. I was clearly mistaken.
> Offer him to cut VIE and maybe even support him into TRI from SER.
> I fear he may call off the attack and move ION to TYS and ALB - ION
> supported by ADR.
Have you been watching Philippe's moves recently? Would it really be bad for
me if Italy called off the attack and backed away? Philippe might actually
press for Ven if that happened.
> As I said your main aim is damgage control.
I agree 100%.
> For every SC lost this year you need to regain one.
Sadly, I'm reasonably certain I'll go down 1 at least.
> At least keep forces concentrated for an
> offensive next year. SER is out on a limb and BUD is lost.
> By cutting TRI/VIE and GAL you can at least bounce SER in BUD for
> the spring.
That's what I'm hoping for.
> So in alliance with Italy I would now suggest RUM - BLA supported by
> SEV. WAR - GAL supported by UKR. BOH - VIE and get Italy to attack TRI,
> SER - BUD.
And what if you assume that Austria is more interested in punishing Andy than
in getting centers from me?
> I usually tend to play my games where I assume the whole world is
> hostile unless I have a very good ally/allies. Italy I believe is your
> key to success.
I'm more willing to trust in others than that, though I understand your
point.
> If you would have stuck with me when you first turned against me
> then you wouldnt be in this mess ;-)
That may well be true! I think of all the players in the north I understood
you the best, and we could have made great allies. I know for a fact that Ben
never would have allied with you, which is why I was willing to trust that
keeping your armies around wasn't a danger to me. I didn't eliminate you out
of spite -- that was also damage control. I looked at where we could get your
armies, and I didn't think they'd be able to counteract his attacks on
Scandinavia if that happened. So making him happy seemed more important than
position in that case.
> With EF on friendly terms the future is a little bleak. I think giving
> up on Denmark and MUN offers you the best choice of forcing EF troops to >
clash in central europe. Let them eat off each other.
> There I would probably go den - kie and attack BER from MUN supported
> by SIL.
Well, I have considered that, but I'm currently looking at a different way of
getting them fighting.
> Cover NWY wuith two units just to slow him down a little. You need to
> make up down south.
Agreed.
> Have you tried getting BEn to convoy to holland with an offer of an
> alliance against france? I know he wanted to move on France and France
> doesnt trust him to much.
Absolutely.
> Maybe you can convince him to get back to MAO and ENG and move SKA to
> NTH for convoy in the fall. A lot of diploming need there. I however
> pushed him from day one to look north. I am amazed he still has a
> chance to do so. But hey thats what you get for not siding with
> Germany ;-)
Well, I think I know most of what you pushed him to do. :) That's part of why
I didn't work with you as closely as I might have otherwise.
> If I were him I would stay north and go for scandinavia and stp in the
> short term. That is why I think he will convoy to HOL.
I'm glad you're not him. But we'll see what he does.
> No doubt Erik is asking him to convoy to DEN or NWY.
Yeah, but I think they both know that they are still bound to fight -- it's
just a question of how much I have to be hurt before they are ready to do so.
> I have not spoken to anyone else. My money is still on you but you have
> a difficult year ahead.
I'm definitely not clear how a solo will come about. I think it's going to
take more than just good tactics, but as you say, lots of diploming. The EFI
relationships are really the big concerns for me.
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Russia
You may have to fill in the gaps on Austria. I indeed forgot he was hell
bent against Italy the last years. I always assume people when the cruch
comes fight for survival. If he is friendly the the situation in Austria
isnt that bad.
Just a selfbounce of him in BUD is enough to get GAL destroyed. I agree you
will probably go one down but you would maybe have a 50/50 chance in turkey.
I was concvinced that RT were working together from out of the gate, were
you? where did it go wrong?
Would Austria self sacrifice himself by bouncing in BUD? Then you have
enough units to HOLD rum and destroy GAL and try for PRU/SIL/BAL. That would
be the easiest way for down souht.
Looking back at the map last year you would have been better off (especially
if you knew Bens moves to a degree of certainty) supporting me to BER and
KIE. He would have had to disband one. I would have been no threat as such.
I dont know why but I feel Erik will push a unit at MUN and RUH. But knowing
he doesnt really trust BEn that seems unlikely. If you get Ben to MAO and
ENG and SKA - NTH I will be impressed but there again he may just well do
it.
Message from Turkey to Russia
Sheesh, I figured the turn would have run by now! :-)
I'm fairly open over here as well, although the balance needs to shift a
little before I can look at changing my position again. Good luck.
jason
Message from England to England
Well, my apologies to the gallery for my dilatory journal entry.
I suspect most of the other powers are worse than I am about the journal,
perhaps all of them, now that Tony is gone. I cannot fathom how someone in
so many games can, from time to time, send out such substantial presses.
Speaking of Tony -
Greg, I have a thought about the format, which is that once an eliminated
player joins the gallery, he resign from the game, so the players know (a)
they can no longer correspond with him, and (b) the other players can no
longer correspond with him either.
More about Tony -
I was struck when Tony recently posted to the VG that he is struggling
against newbies in some of his games.
I am not at all surprised. He is clearly playing several levels beyond me
in sophistication but his style, which can be abrasive at times, makes it
easy for a kind novice like myself to befriend France, played by another
relative newcomer. I do not think Andy's warnings about Tony changed the
course of the EF v G, though they certainly made *my* choice easy. All I
wanted was one partner or the other, and Andy's warnings gave me plenty of
ammunition to pursue the EF. But in the end, I suspect Tony's forward,
abrasive style, would have so irritated Erik that there would have been an
EF anyway. Witness Comments, in which Erik was noticeably sensitive to the
personalities at the helms of the powers around him.
I am relieved finally to look at the long range picture again, and find it
is not *too* different from what I had wanted earlier. Which is to say,
enough inroads into Russia to provide me the builds I will need to take out
France.
The key will be, will Eric collapse in the south. If yes, so much the
better, but if not, I am in a secure place for the draw, if it comes to
that. To solo I still imagine I will have to penetrate the Russian centers
- MOS and/or WAR. I do not see myself entering the Med against Italy, who
looks to be around for awhile, now that he is bounded by friendly faces in
T and F.
Ben
Austria: Army Trieste → Budapest
Austria: Army Vienna SUPPORT Army Trieste → Budapest
England: Fleet Berlin → Baltic Sea (*bounce*)
England: Army Edinburgh → North Sea → Holland
England: Fleet Kiel → Denmark
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean → Norwegian Sea
England: Fleet North Sea CONVOY Army Edinburgh → Holland
England: Fleet Skagerrak SUPPORT Fleet Kiel → Denmark
France: Army Belgium HOLD
France: Army Burgundy → Marseilles
France: Fleet Marseilles → Gulf of Lyon
France: Army Paris → Burgundy
France: Fleet Portugal → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) → Western Mediterranean
Italy: Fleet Adriatic Sea SUPPORT Army Venice → Trieste
Italy: Fleet Albania SUPPORT Army Venice → Trieste
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece
Italy: Army Piedmont → Tyrolia (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Venice → Trieste
Russia: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Army Munich → Tyrolia
Russia: Fleet Denmark → Baltic Sea (*bounce, dislodged*)
Russia: Army Munich → Tyrolia
Russia: Fleet Rumania → Sevastopol
Russia: Army Serbia → Rumania (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol → Armenia
Russia: Army Silesia SUPPORT Army Warsaw → Galicia
Russia: Army St Petersburg → Norway
Russia: Army Sweden SUPPORT Army St Petersburg → Norway
Russia: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Army Serbia → Rumania
Russia: Army Warsaw → Galicia
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea → Constantinople
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Galicia → Rumania
Turkey: Army Bulgaria SUPPORT Army Galicia → Rumania
Turkey: Army Galicia → Rumania
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