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Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> Well, not much of a surprise with the northern moves. Not only should I
have
> taken your advice re:Erik, but I guess it was a huge mistake to be nice to
> Tony. I made really bad calls by trying to work with either of them
against
> you, by overestimating their ability to actually cooperate effectively
(for
> vastly different reasons). If you want to just throw everything you have
at
> me, I can hardly blame you.
That's not likely going to happen. If you put the pieces together, you
will see I had little choice. It was this, or my end, per FG.
> That said, I am happy to see if we can come to some arrangement. You'll
want
> one or more of the Scandinavian centers back. Anything we can do to limit
the
> fighting to just that? I know I haven't been much of an ally, but niether
> have either F or G -- Tony in particular has shown exactly how long you
can
> trust him to work with you by attacking me immediately after I went *way*
out
> of my way to keep him in the game. I won't make that mistake again.
Gratitude is not something I would expect from Tony. I have every
confidence that you and I will work this out before too long. It will just
be a matter of taking advantage of the right timing.
> In any case, tell me what you are thinking. If you take Den, we're
basically
> back to the position we were in a season ago, but France now apparently
has
> an FI alliance worked out that you will need to worry about as well
(whether
> this season's moves were arranged or not). We could cooperate to take out
> Tony in fairly short order -- something that would be good for both of us
> even if you decide to press against me in the north. If you do choose to
work
> with me, I promise to try to be amusing. Or if it would be better, I can
> promise to STOP trying to be amusing. Your choice. :)
:-) It will be a matter of timing, that's all. I'll study the map later.
In my last press, I was sincere that I hadn't done much writing & I didn't
know what was happening elsewhere, by the way - I was perhaps more
surprised than you at F and G's moves. Also, don't rush France's attack
against me, if you want me to be a long-term partner for you, try not to
get me killed again, ok? There's not much damage I can do to you now, and
I am quite sincere that we'll be looking together for opportunities
elsewhere.
There's no reason for there to be bad blood - I don't see anything more
than a border skirmish or two. Maybe we can even choreograph that.
> It's late here, so I'm going to sign off. Talk to you soon.
I have out of town company - this is the only c2 press I'm writing this
morning. We'll catch up more later.
Ben
Message from Russia to Italy
>Eric...
>
>Just keep telling me how inexperienced and busy you are......
I *am* busy -- very much so.
>Im not as stupid as the average american, and Im certainly not a
>republican, so this trick wont work on me.....
This is absolutely hilarious to me. My moves cannot possibly be what you
would have recommended, can they? I was actually planning a message to you
with just this comment when I was taking a shower this morning. I find it
hilarious that you seem to think that my moves were good ones, or at least
well thought out. Would *you* have force retreated Jason to Gal in my
place? I think not!
The reason I was thinking of talking to you is to follow up on some
comments that I had made (or thought I made to you) about ability. I would
characterize myself as an adequate (but generally poor) whole-game planner,
a decent-to-good piece pusher (from an individual board position
perspective) and a much better than average diplomat. My guess is that the
good things you hear about me are from some of those games where I've lost
-- in games where I'm doing poorly my diplomacy capabilities make me look
much better than I actually am.
I think this game is a good example of the weaknesses in my play. Despite
arguably controlling the diplomatic action on the board for several
seasons, I'm in a relatively precarious position -- at least precarious
compared to where I should be. I'm not good at controlling the board play;
I'm a better sit back and watch player. In three games as Russia I've eeked
out a three-way, been eliminated (after getting to nine centers) and the
jury's out on this one. In one game as France I was pummeled. By contrast,
in three games as Austria/Italy I have two solos and a three-way that was
one misorder (and one opponent abandonment) away from being a solo itself.
So I know I talked about inexperience, and you are probably right to call
that BS. It's more my weakness in whole-game planning I'm talking about.
That's probably more insight than I should share with someone who's
supporting people into my centers, but hey, I can't help myself but to talk
when I actually sit down to do it. I'm an analyst that can't stop analyzing
(with an emphasis on the "anal" part (and for the observers, that's a
psychological and not a sexual reference!))
> > Also, do you expect Jason will try to take back Gre?
>
>Definitely not now.
Yeah. More of my good planning there. :)
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Turkey
> My apologies at the lateness - it's been a busy few days.
>
> Thanks for the IR warning.
No problem, even though IR are both playing for strong positions,
things are not as clear as I thought between those two. Anyway,
given the end results, I'm not surprise that you didn't take my
warning too seriously.
Regarding this fall, have you figured out a plan yet and will there be
any place in it for me, beside getting attacked that is?
Philippe
Message from Austria to Russia
Hi Eric,
It's a good thing that I opted for Tri-Ven instead of Tri-Ser :-)
On your side, I'm not sure why you decided to hold in Den &
Stp, but it's too late to do anything about it.
Now, how do you want to handle the presence of a Turkish
army in Gal? If Jason doesn't perceived me to be a firm ally
of yours, wich I'm hoping he won't so I can better help you,
I wouldn't expect him to try for War when he can attack Bud
or Rum with it, so War should be safe unless you want to
dislodged him from there.
As for Rum, it's nice to see that you were able to take it, but
I doubt it can be retained, so we might has well use it to cut
Ser's support while I support you in (or support me in, but
Bud's support can be cut by Gal).
Not knowing your intent, and probably with many mistakes,
here's what I would suggest:
Austria:
-Vie-Bud (bounce Gal-Bud since an attack involving Gal will
probably not see Gal support it)
-Tri s Bud-Ser
Russia:
-Bud-Ser (sure to work unless Gal support Ser-Bud wich isn't
very likely)
-Rum-Bul (cut Ser's support while it will have to retreat to Sev)
-Sil-Ber
-Tyr-Mun
-Boh s Tyr-Mun
-Ukr-War or hold
-Stp-Mos if Ukr-War (Help with Sev since an attack on Nwy
this fall isn't likely with two units to defend it)
-Swe-Nwy & Den-Ska or Swe-Fin & Den-Swe (depending
on how you think England will use it's fleet in Ska)
Hopefully, we should be able to compensate your loss of
territory with new gains this fall.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Austria
Whatever it's worth, Eric came through and I will surely spend
the rest of the game as Russia's janissary; but it doesn't mean
that I will stop talking to others. The last thing I want to see is
everyone focusing on taking out Russia's puppet and who
knows what's going to happen.
Message from Austria to Italy
> So, help me out here...
>
> How did this make your position better?
It doesn't really; but I didn't believe you were sincere this
turn, so I expected you to position yourself for after my
elimination (maybe even pick Tri for yourself).
Oh surprise! You didn't move to Boh and try to get Tus
in Ven. If this was all a friendly gesture, why not tell me
about it in advance?
Philippe
Message from Turkey to Turkey
Well, it appears that my trying to play IR off against each other has
finally ended up in FIR working together to some extent. I guess I
shouldn't be surprised, since I dicked around for far to long before
actually getting anywhere.
Russia is clearly not someone I can work with in the long run, if only
because he's far to dangerous. I need to secure that flank before I work
west. If thing go really, really well this turn, he might lose 5
centers. Unlikely, but I need to work toward that. If I can maybe reform
AIT, I might be able to get somewhere.
jason
Message from Turkey to Russia
Thanks for letting me know. I figured that not getting a message back to
you before the deadline might be confusing.
Regardless, we certainly need to move forward now. I'm open to focusing
on Greece and not worrying too much about Rum. With your position in
Tyr, you should be able to give Austria a hard time.
jason
Message from Turkey to England
Well, it looks like France made a nice deal with Italy to disengage.
That can't be good for either of us. Hopefully, though, you can make
some progress in Scandinavia.
Russia is claiming that his moves were just a big misunderstanding,
trying to ward off a stab he feared from me. Nice story, but I somehow
doubt it.
Any particular way that I can help you out this turn?
jason
Message from Turkey to Austria
Well, I did take your warning somewhat seriously, but I can't say I
expected a supported attack on Rum. I figured he'd defend Sev instead.
Regardless, yes, I think there is a place for you in the plan. I won't
be supporting Bud this coming turn, although with Russia breathing down
your neck, you might not be able to take advantage of it. What would you
like from me?
jason
Message from Turkey to Italy
Hey Andy,
Long time, no talk. I see that you and Russia and France have come to
some sort of an understanding, although I'm wondering if A Tyr was a
part of it.
Let me propose that we recommit ourselves to working with each other.
Russia has shown that he's not trustworthy, and France has given you
some space to work in Austria. Do you think we can make a go of it?
jason
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Well, it looks like France made a nice deal with Italy to disengage.
> That can't be good for either of us. Hopefully, though, you can make
> some progress in Scandinavia.
If France stays off my back. If France comes after me, it is a small matter
for me to turn my back on Russia and let him grow in the North & in the
German/Lowland centers. Our interests coincide. . .
> Russia is claiming that his moves were just a big misunderstanding,
> trying to ward off a stab he feared from me. Nice story, but I somehow
> doubt it.
:-) No doubt he is aware of the adage, that it is not an attack if the
target does not think it is an attack. Why would he tell you he's attacking
you?
> Any particular way that I can help you out this turn?
Defend yourself. See that? Our interests coincide. Let's try to keep him
from getting any builds.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> Start taking Russian dots...like NOW, Please.
Gladly. What are you telling Erik? Because eventually he will attack one
of us, and believe the group press I'm about to send. . .
Ben
Message from England to France and Italy
Gentlemen -
> I hope that was planned.
It was.
> Because if it wasnt you two need to get your shit together at
> a very very
> very rapid rate or we will have a Russian solo on our hands.
I will keep pushing north but I will come south in a heartbeat if I am
attacked by Erik again.
I am sorry not to write more - very busy at work this week.
Ben
Message from Italy to Turkey
> Long time, no talk. I see that you and Russia and France have come to
> some sort of an understanding, although I'm wondering if A Tyr was a
> part of it.
Well....Russia and I havent but yes...France is letting me hold against
Russia
> Let me propose that we recommit ourselves to working with each other.
> Russia has shown that he's not trustworthy, and France has given you
> some space to work in Austria. Do you think we can make a go of it?
I told you that as long as you didnt make supported attacks on Greece we
are all good and its the truth.
I dont expect for their to be much of Austria to take after this season,
but your assistance with anything that is left would be great.
If we are going to work together to slow down Russia, you need at least
one more army. How do you plan on getting it.
Andy
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Well, I did take your warning somewhat seriously, but I can't say I
> expected a supported attack on Rum. I figured he'd defend Sev instead.
>
> Regardless, yes, I think there is a place for you in the plan. I won't
> be supporting Bud this coming turn, although with Russia breathing down
> your neck, you might not be able to take advantage of it. What would you
> like from me?
Thanks for the quick response. Just knowing that I'm
not a target of yours is good to know. As for more, I
will need some time to look at a map and figure it out.
One thing is sure, the more sc you take from Russia
and Italy, the safer I will be.
Philippe
Message from Germany to Russia
Hi Eric,
Well I dont feel to bad about trying to save my own bacon. Your silence put
me in a spot of bother. I had to do some last minute negotiating. Good news
for you is that France didnt come through, only Italy did. No doubt he was
suprised to see the Austrian moves. I tried to mobilize AI in my defence.
One out of two wasnt to bad.
Although my time left is limited I am all open for some wheeling and
dealing.
Tony
Message from Germany to England and France
Well support to MUN would have given me a better feeling.
What are the plans for the fall?
Message from Germany to Austria and Turkey
Hi guys, still hard to figure out what is going on over there. That means
that I can feel free to give advice which may sound a load of bull. VIE -
BUD supported by TRI. BUL - RUM supported by SER. GAL - WAR and BLA - SEV.
Hahahahahaha..... or not? either way my time is limited. Those that are
about to die salute you.
Tony
Message from Germany to England, France, and Italy
Well I am guessing we were all surprised by Austria's moves. He seems to
have rolled over with his legs in the air.
I would like to thank Italy for supporting me into MUN. I am hoping the four
of us can work together in the fall.
I can only suggest the following. BUR support RUH - MUN, MUN - BER supported
by KIE, PIE - TYR.
I am assuming that PIE, BUR and KIE are free to help. I would expect Italy
to be worried about a supported attack on VEN. If he uses PIE to help
against Russia then he risks losing VEN. I will try a last ditched effort to
get AT to attack BUD & RUM.
Any other suggestions are more than welcome.
Tony
Message from Austria to Turkey
(second copy since first one seem lost in cyberspace)
> Well, I did take your warning somewhat seriously, but I can't say I
> expected a supported attack on Rum. I figured he'd defend Sev instead.
>
> Regardless, yes, I think there is a place for you in the plan. I won't
> be supporting Bud this coming turn, although with Russia breathing down
> your neck, you might not be able to take advantage of it. What would you
> like from me?
Thanks for the quick response. Just knowing that I'm
not a target of yours is good to know. As for a plan
of my own, I would need some time to look at a map.
One thing is sure, the more sc you take from Russia
and Italy, the safer I will be.
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria
>
> It doesn't really; but I didn't believe you were sincere this
> turn, so I expected you to position yourself for after my
> elimination (maybe even pick Tri for yourself).
Thats fair.
>
> Oh surprise! You didn't move to Boh and try to get Tus
> in Ven. If this was all a friendly gesture, why not tell me
> about it in advance?
I changed my orders at the 11th hour...
Because until I got buy in from other powers to slow down the Russian, my
your stab would have worked.
When 2 people told me that you had told them that we hadnt spoken at all I
decided to cover my bases.
Message from France to England
Ben:
Thank you for keeping your promise. The gain of Belgium will do much for
the French war effort, and I'm glad to see that neither of us did much
to help out Tony. Better not to have him hanging around waiting for a
comeback.
F Mao and F Por appeared for defensive purposes, as I'm sure you can
understand, but I will now be a little more relaxed using them
elsewhere. I'd like to start heading South again; with Turkey about to
crumble, IR are going to be the only easter powers left, and that spells
trouble for you and I.
We need to keep Munich and Berlin out of Russian hands. Any thought?
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
Interesting turn. I can't say that the move to Tyrolia was anticipated,
but it was appreciated. Are you planning on propping Austria up for a
while? And does F Rum signify the breakdown of RT?
England has been kind enough to vacate his attack against me and grant
me Belgium. He clearly sees you as the largest threat on the board, for
obvious reasons. While I must admit that your gains are impressive, I'm
not one for follow-the-herd / attack-the-leader mentality, so this
latest reversal in direction may be the opportunity we've been looking
for to put England away once and for all.
I warned you on Munich, but didn't expect that Italian support. Why
didn't you try to hold it?
Erik
Message from Turkey to England
No question, our interests coincide on many levels. I'll see how well I
can hold Russia off. Who knows, maybe we can force a disband or two?
jason
Message from Turkey to Austria
Well, I'll see what I can do for you. Good luck holding on. If you want
to go with Germany's suggestion, let me know.
jason
Message from Turkey to Italy
Fair enough, then.
I assume he'll hold Rum with Ukr and attack with Bud. I'll try an
all-out attack to try and take as many centers as possible. Hopefully,
England can make some progress in the north to whittle him down some also.
jason
Message from Turkey to Austria and Germany
Thanks for the suggestions. Very aggressive, but certainly will hurt if
it works.
jason
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Well support to MUN would have given me a better feeling.
> What are the plans for the fall?
None yet - I should be able to look at it later today & evaluate your group
plan.
In the event of EFGI cooperation, Tony, whither France?
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
I don't think it helps you if I get crushed by Erik. Is he about to stab
me?
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> No question, our interests coincide on many levels. I'll see
> how well I
> can hold Russia off. Who knows, maybe we can force a disband or two?
Hopefully, if I am not attacked by France.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Thank you for keeping your promise. The gain of Belgium will
> do much for
> the French war effort, and I'm glad to see that neither of us did much
> to help out Tony. Better not to have him hanging around waiting for a
> comeback.
I agree 100%.
> F Mao and F Por appeared for defensive purposes, as I'm sure you can
> understand, but I will now be a little more relaxed using them
> elsewhere. I'd like to start heading South again; with Turkey about to
> crumble, IR are going to be the only easter powers left, and
> that spells trouble for you and I.
I agree. We - I - have been fooling around for too long.
> We need to keep Munich and Berlin out of Russian hands. Any thought?
Well, Tony's proposal seems to work, with me supporting him to BER with KIE.
If you are thinking about pushing south again, you could hide MAO on SPA/sc,
and tell Andy I insisted you do it so I could go north against Russia.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from Austria to Russia
Eric,
Have you receive my last press?
Philippe
Message from Germany to England
Hi Ben,
> In the event of EFGI cooperation, Tony, whither France?>
Interesting theory, I wonder how many wither Germanys are flying around ;-)
I would obviosuly like to stay on two at least. HOL, BER, BEL, KIE are my
possibles.
We dont have much time before the deadline.
I havent heared anything from FIR as yet. Sad to say the least. I did make
some suggestions to AT. Turkey thought they were bold so who knows. To be
honest you would best be off looking north for the builds. I like the look
of
mun - ber, ruh - bel supported by nth, hel - hol, kie - den supported by
ska.
At worst I end up on three. You would remain on 5 for now and France remians
on 5. Then you and I set about FR next year. An interesting twist. I dont
see FI signing up for anything daring before the deadline alas.
Of course you could just think of good old england, take a shot at den and
sweden. May net you three.
All I can do is keep my fingers crossed.
Tony
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> We dont have much time before the deadline.
The deadline is tomorrow, so we have a day + a few hours.
> I havent heared anything from FIR as yet. Sad to say the least.
Something's up with Andy IRL, I'm guessing; it's not like him not to write.
> mun - ber, ruh - bel supported by nth, hel - hol, kie - den
> supported by ska.
Interesting. . . Let me look at this later & get back to you - I'm trying to wrap up at work.
[snip]
> All I can do is keep my fingers crossed.
& wheel & deal.
Let's stay in touch & compare notes about Italy, France, and Russia. If any of them write. . .
Ben
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
Sorry. Yes, I got your press. I read it, and that was the last time I was
able to read personal email until now. If Jason is to be believed, he's not
really miffed about F Rum (of course, that could be a lie). If he isn't, he
might attack Andy, which could be good. I'm inclined to go with your
suggestions in the south, and will not likely have time to review things.
In the north, Den H was a mistake - F Bal is much more useful, esp. since Den
is not salvageable. Too late to realize it, but there you have it. StP H was
to make sure that Nwy could be held while still hedging against a convoy into
Sev. Probably not a good move.
My main question for you is strategic, not tactical: is it more important to
try to eliminate (or hamstring) Jason now, which helps Andy, or should we try
to get the two of them to fight some more. Andy thinks that with F Rum that
Jason will not be after him. My original plan was that once Jason took Gre
(which he still might), then we can attack him when he has no chance of
getting any more builds. Now that I stuck him in Gal (ack) and he can still
pick up Gre, there's the concern that with a build it'll be hard to press
him.
If I take Ser/Rum, then I should hold even in centers -- or get a build if
I'm lucky in the north. If you take Ser, then you could build a fleet, which
eventually is going to be important if we want to put pressure on Ven, but A
Gal will probably kill me in the meantime. That's as far as my thinking has
gotten at this point.
So attacking Jason is fine, I just want it to be clear that there's a good
chance he'd disband Aeg/EMS and then Andy would be the one to benefit.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
I dont have a bloody idea. He hasnt said a word to me.
Message from Russia to France
Well, I figured the odds of holding Mun were low if either you or Italy
helped G, so thought I'd try to clear out the area instead. At least now I
don't have to worry about Andy's units for at least another season!
The move with Jason was due entirely to him being unavailable all turn. I
worried it meant he was attacking me, and so I made a move that would have
been harmless had he supported himself in Rum as I expected. If I had WANTED
to attack him, I would have ensured that A Rum was disbanded (War-Gal, not
War-Sil). A Gal is worse for me than anything that could have come from an
actual fight between RT.
As to Ben, that's mostly in your court now. I can only defend for the moment.
I had hoped that your moves indicated that Ben wasn't going to have free
range to come after me, but at this point he's (not surprisingly) not
volunteering information about his plans. He has asked me not to encourage
you to attack him. :)
I am still worried about Tony -- with his sudden turning on me after I so
generously let him keep two units (I could have forced him down to one
easily) I think that he's a dangerous wildcard. Are you planning to support
him to hold in Mun? Are you willing to help me get back Mun and take Ber in
exchange for getting Hol/Kie as Ben goes down?
As to an ongoing attack on Jason, I would rather be sure that you are going
to have some room to attack Andy before hitting Jason. There's a good chance
that if Jason loses units that he will throw centers to Andy, which means
trouble for you, especially if Ben is still strong, which then means trouble
for me once you've been "taken care of". That's not a direct answer to your
question (I haven't said I will or won't attack him) but I would be greatly
influenced by your take on things.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
Okay, so how would you like to proceed? You can retake Rum with Gal-Rum
(and this time I can't really complain about A Rum!) and take Gre with your
three units on it. Is that what you are thinking? I have to figure out
where I get the most leverage -- trying to press north or trying to press
south. Keeping Andy backed up will give you room to take Ven once you are
in Tri. What's your thinking?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
So, given that I've been continuing my tradition of "moves that screw over
Andy" is there anything you'd like to discuss for Fall? Unless you have
really good friends, you're likely to stay even in units (assuming you are
correct that Jason does not try for Gre). It seems like you've got peace
with France, at least for as long as England still has units, and you stand
to come out as a strong friend of whoever is still standing at the end.
So I guess I'm asking whether you have any ideas for cooperation, short
term of long term, that would be worthy of discussion? I imagine that your
choice to attack or not attack Jason is not going to be based on
negotiations between the two of us (but correct me if I'm wrong). So it
seems any discussions would hinge on longer term planning, which I'm
thinking you're also not terribly interested in discussing, while I'm busy
making it hard for you to get centers. So I'm saying that I'm open to
discussion, but I realize that in itself is not necessarily a useful
statement.
I feel like I must be overlooking something, because this is at least the
third season in a row where I've said basically, "not much to say, sorry".
So I just want to make it clear that the lack of content is positional and
not personal in any way.
On an out of game topic, I remember reading around the time of the DC
tourney that there was going to be a tourney of some sort on the west coast
in February. Do you know anything about that, or are you only involved in
east coast stuff?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
Looking over the board you are in an intriguing position. I am not
interested in inciting France against you, but I don't think that's
something I have control over (see below). If you force Den, you risk
losing Hol, Bel and Kie, while France takes Eng and possibly MAO. Andy can
make him pay for it, but not in time to do you any good.
Long and the short of it, I don't need to tell anyone this stuff. GF worked
out last season's moves without me, and Tony even went to the trouble to
send a three way press to FR telling me that he'd be moving Kie-Hol. Point
not being that he surprised me, but that he's seeing good opportunities
whether or not I help him, and now he's working with France.
My proposal to you doesn't change much from previous proposals. I won't be
taking hostile action against you, and I'd like to cooperate. Obviously
you'll be dubious about this because I've taken advantage of you before,
but let me stress that hitting Den was -- to me, given what I was hearing
diplomatically at the time -- a shot at a solo. It was not a capricious
"hey look, I can pick up one center" kind of thing. If GF had moved as I
hoped then I *would* have been able to build F StP(nc) and had a real
presence in the north. It failed miserably, and had I known that Erik's
defense was going to be so bad then I never would have tried it.
I don't know if you see this explanation as good or bad. The point is that
I very much value our ability to work together, and I don't intentionally
screw people Tony-fashion (actually Joe Brennan's style is the one I think
of more in that vein) just for the fun of it. With A StP I have virtually
eliminated the threat against you from me, since even if I were to build
another fleet, it would take seasons to get to your shores. I'm pretty
clear that Erik is intent on attacking you regardless of your agreement. It
was in part the certainty that Erik would *not* back off of you that made
taking Den seem like a viable shot at a solo (part of what I meant by
"given what I was hearing").
So if we can work together, we can eliminate Tony, I can establish a line
across Scandinavia and you can have units to stand off Erik with -- at
least until Andy gets into a position and relieve pressure off of you. I'm
not suggesting that you have to attack Erik to work with me -- just that it
might be in your interest to not commit against me yet even as you try to
ensure that FE relations are acceptable. I am disappointed to see that you
left yourself no attack on Bel, but I gather that was part of the FG
ultimatum. The downside is that, as you say, Tony is not likely to honor it.
Sorry, this is long because I'm short on time, and in that situation I
either get really brusque or blather on without doing a lot of self
editing. I may even be trying to convince you of something you already
agree to. You had said "Maybe we can even choreograph [our fighting]".
We've been successful with that before. Anything you have in mind in
particular? While I agree that you can't mortally wound me alone, you are
the one with the initiative at this time, as I can only defend against your
push.
And don't take the morose tone poorly. I'm not angry or even really trying
to be defensive. Just rushing.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
Well, I was disappointed but not surprised by the moves. I thought I had
made it clear that I was going to defend in the Spring and help you
actively in the Fall, and that's why I wasn't too worried about negotiating
details. As you can see from my moves, I was planning to leave you plenty
of flexibility under our agreement -- you'd pick up Bel, and you'd be
assured that I wasn't going to try to take both Kie and Ber.
For Fall you can either continue to press me, or you can work with France
against England. I don't think you have enough units to do both. If we
assume England is coming after me full out, he can force Den. That's a
risky move for him because he could end up losing Kie, Hol and Bel if he
does that. I'm willing to just take back Mun (and not attack Ber at all) if
you are willing to take Kie from Mun. That puts us back on track. But I'm
getting the impression that leading the downfall of England is not
sufficient for you. Is that correct? If you really want to reestablish
yourself, I need to know so that we can negotiate on that basis. I'm not in
a position to fight you while England's pressing me, so I need to know
whether you are (or were) really willing to press west.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to Russia
> So, given that I've been continuing my tradition of "moves that screw over
> Andy" is there anything you'd like to discuss for Fall?
No....I have just been plagued with direct neighbors that seem to
continually think that I am a combination of Saddam Hussien and Josef
Stalin.
Unless you have
> really good friends, you're likely to stay even in units (assuming you are
> correct that Jason does not try for Gre). It seems like you've got peace
> with France, at least for as long as England still has units, and you stand
> to come out as a strong friend of whoever is still standing at the end.
Well...its just a matter of time before Erik attacks me again.
> So I guess I'm asking whether you have any ideas for cooperation, short
> term of long term, that would be worthy of discussion? I imagine that your
> choice to attack or not attack Jason is not going to be based on
> negotiations between the two of us (but correct me if I'm wrong).
I wouldnt say that is concrete, but its pretty clear that as long as you
are gaining 2 centers every year, I wont be helping you into dots.
So it
> seems any discussions would hinge on longer term planning, which I'm
> thinking you're also not terribly interested in discussing, while I'm busy
> making it hard for you to get centers. So I'm saying that I'm open to
> discussion, but I realize that in itself is not necessarily a useful
> statement.
Well....The Austrian gave me terribly lame excuses last turn.
And he has basically given you both his remaining dots.
> I feel like I must be overlooking something, because this is at least the
> third season in a row where I've said basically, "not much to say, sorry".
> So I just want to make it clear that the lack of content is positional and
> not personal in any way.
I dont think you are missing anyting and I wouldnt take it personally
anyway.
> On an out of game topic, I remember reading around the time of the DC
> tourney that there was going to be a tourney of some sort on the west coast
> in February. Do you know anything about that, or are you only involved in
> east coast stuff?
Denver is February 13, 14 and 15.
Message from Italy to England, France, and Germany
Im protecting my home and trying to figure out how to make some headway...
And for the love of god...please dont start fighting amoungst yourselves
again.
Message from France to Turkey
Jason:
Interesting turn. I appreciate the turn back toward Andy -- took a
little heat off me and will get me back on my feet. I know you're
concerned about me barrelling into the Mediterranean, but don't you
think it makes more sense to come after Italy from both sides than from
one? Even after we take care of him, we'll both have our hands full with
Russia and England. I don't see any reason that the two of us can
coexist going into the endgame.
What do you make of the move to Rumania? All is not well in the world of
RT?
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
I think you should forget about Tony and take gains for yourself,
frankly. He's a loose cannon -- he was a Russian lackey just a few short
turns ago, let's not forget. Might I recommend Kiel - Ber, Nth - Den,
Hel S Nth - Den, Ska - Swe?
He can't take Berlin with Sil alone, and this keeps Germany from making
more gains. I can perhaps prop Munich up for long enough to get another
army built in Paris and sent on its way to Ruhr.
I'm open to either direction, though.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
Frankly, I would feel more comfortable if *I* took Munich with your
support. Not a gain for you, of course, but I need the build badly, and
frankly, you're doing pretty well. If you can patch up the relationship
with Jason, you're unstoppable in Central Europe and doing fine up North
until I can bring some power to bear up there. It will be more efficient
for both of us if I can get a second build and get a fleet build in Bre.
I am trying to convince Jason that it's not a good idea to stop his
attack on Andy when he sees me starting one -- it's counterproductive
for both of us. Any suggestions you could send his away along the same
theme would be helpful.
I think you can expect an attack on Den and Ber (which isn't yours, but
might as well be by this point). Tony seems to have decided to work
against you now, though we all know how quickly he could flip sides.
Erik
Message from France to Germany
The only reason I didn't support the effort to Mun was because I knew
Andy would (we discussed it) and felt I'd be better off ensuring that I
could retake Belgium. Frankly, I wasn't entirely confident in Ben's
departure.
Ben does seem willing to follow your suggested course of action, though.
Do you think we could get A Pie to hit Tyr?
Erik
Message from France to Italy
Yes, it was planned. I supported it only out of lingering doubts about
Ben's commitment to peace. I would have supported the attack Munich
otherwise, but figured your support was as good as mine.
Effective planning on Eric's part, though. He's basically removed your
influence from the area for a few turns. Do you think you might be able
to break any support that Tyr might provide, or do you need to ensure
the defense of Venice?
Erik
Message from Turkey to Russia
Yes, I think those moves make sense. That should give me a build and
reestablish my line correctly.
Once I hold Gre, we can go back to you supporting me into Tri while you
can press against Germany and England. With France at his back, I doubt
he'll have much wiggle room.
jason
Message from Turkey to France
Good to hear from you, I was just about to write.
Eric is claiming Rum was just a mistake and a misunderstanding, but I
have my doubts. Right now, I'm hoping England can take a little pressure
off me in the north, but I think your moves have him a little spooked.
Agreed that FT can be an excellent endgame alliance, and one I'd be
happy to see. Right now, the two of us just need to get ourselves firmly
established.
jason
Message from Germany to France
I understand and believe your reasoning. I was sure it had something to do
with you mistrusting Ben,
In fact Italy did press me just before the deadline stating that the two of
you had spoken.
Can I count on support for MUN?
Message from Germany to Italy
I am sure AI will hit Russia this year. I sent them a press on BUD/RUM and
the Turk sounded interesting. RUssia has assured me that he will be going
for MUN. The two add up. If you could hit TYR then please do.
I think ROM - VEN will be more than enough to safeguard it. If I am wrong
then GIA are exit anyway.
Good luck whatever you do.
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
You make a series of good points.
Reading your last few presses together, I am struggling to detect whether
you are offering a northern dot back to me or not.
Could you please clue me in?
Still busy at work. . . Things should ease up soon. Sorry for the short
note.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> > mun - ber, ruh - bel supported by nth, hel - hol, kie - den
> > supported by ska.
> Interesting. . . Let me look at this later & get back to you - I'm
> trying to wrap up at work.
Ok, I finally got around to it. It looks like it would work, but I'm
reluctant to incite a French suicide - do you think it's necessary?
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> I think you should forget about Tony and take gains for yourself,
> frankly. He's a loose cannon -- he was a Russian lackey just a few short
> turns ago, let's not forget. Might I recommend Kiel - Ber, Nth - Den,
> Hel S Nth - Den, Ska - Swe?
I'll look it over in alittle while. Hasn't Tony said all along he will be
ordering MUN - BER? He's encouraging me to support RUH - BEL - who knows
if he'd really order it, but if he does, I wonder if there's a way for us
to take advantage. . .
It depends on Italy, I suppose; on whether PIE - TYR. If Andy won't commit
to that, perhaps I should accept his "offer," support him to BER, and allow
him to bounce off you in BEL while MUN goes down to Russia. That would put
us nearer the end of Tony's contribution to C2. . .
What do you think?
Ben
Message from Italy to France
> Yes, it was planned. I supported it only out of lingering doubts about
> Ben's commitment to peace. I would have supported the attack Munich
> otherwise, but figured your support was as good as mine.
Fair enough.
> Effective planning on Eric's part, though. He's basically removed your
> influence from the area for a few turns. Do you think you might be able
> to break any support that Tyr might provide, or do you need to ensure
> the defense of Venice?
Influence is an intresting thing.
Im protecting my home spaces.
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Can you support me to BER (from SIL) and to KIE (from DEN)?
No cost to you, and it would keep my fleets busily away from NWY, SWE, etc.
Ben
Message from England to England
Clearly MAO - NAO (or IRI or ENG) must be very tempting to Erik. Ideally Eric will support me into KIE & BER and Tony will order RUH - BEL, which would protect me from BEL - HOL and BUR - BEL. If those fall into place I should be able to hold Erik off for awhile, if the attack comes.
If Erik does not attack me this phase my outlook will be as good as its been since S1901. The casual tone of his last press struck me - something I like to see but it was not completely familiar, from him. Could be a good sign, could be a bad sign, could be a sign he'd been drinking while writing press.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
One thing I can offer, in exchange, is to try to arrange for MUN to be
vulnerable. . .
Anyway, if you would like to patch things up, support to BER and KIE would
permit me to defend myself in the west. . .
Let me know your thoughts.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> I dont have a bloody idea. He hasnt said a word to me.
Great.
I wish I trusted one of my neighbors to do what he says he'd do - any one of
'em.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Ok, go ahead to BEL - please let me know if you're not interested in this
strategy anymore, as I'm pretty conflicted & I don't think it's any help to
you for me to start fighting Erik again. Russia will run you over like the
useless chump you'd be. . . ;-)
Ben
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
Erik started talking to me last night.
He is on board with you, at least that is what he tells me.
> I wish I trusted one of my neighbors to do what he says he'd do - any one of
> 'em.
Just start taking Russian dots. It cant hurt.
Andy
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> Erik started talking to me last night.
> He is on board with you, at least that is what he tells me.
Of course this is what I want. I am *not* planning on pushing south right
now, though as we've discussed, there will be a time when I hope we can work
that together.
What will he do with his fleets, do you think? Hold?
> Just start taking Russian dots. It cant hurt.
:-)
Ben
Message from Germany to England
I thought you wanted to go after Ben. I will get a 3 way / 4 way press
going.
Hold on the support to BEn, new plan coming up.
Message from Italy to England
> What will he do with his fleets, do you think? Hold?
That is what I suspect.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> I thought you wanted to go after Ben.
I am Ben.
> I will get a 3 way / 4 way press going.
> Hold on the support to BEn, new plan coming up.
With whom? This isn't something I'd planned on broadcasting. . .
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Hahahahahahaha 96 emails from 26 games. Sorry Ben. I meant you were talking
about withering out France.
I see my jibberish has improved.
Message from Germany to England, France, and Italy
If I understand correctly Italy wishes to take care of his own affairs, this
is fair enough and understandable.
I informed Italy that I had made a suggestion to AT and the Turk's fantasy
was tickled.
It may free up PIE to cut support from TYR but that is Andys call.
As for KIE/BER/MUN the Russian has stated he will go for MUN. Is he being
honest? your guess is as good as mine.
I am hoping that Ben would prefer a build from Russia than from me.
All I can hope and pray for is tender loving care from France/England &
Italy coupled with my loyal devotion to helping you in the future. My
prayers and suggestions are A RUH - MUN supported by BUR, PIE - TYR, MUN -
BEr, KIE - DEN supported by HEL, SKA - SWE, NTH - HOL, BEL - HOL. Its the
best I can come up with (for me that is ;)
Any other suggestions more than welcome. Maybe Russia will throw three units
at WAR but that leaves him open for attack in WAR/RUM. Those who may or may
not sie salute you.
Message from Germany to Russia
I guess there was a major communications blunder. I knew Bens moves
regarding KIE. Support from DEN for KIE whilst I attacked HOL supported by
KIE would have worked wonders. His fleet would have been destroyed.
This would have left me and you in a much better situation than now. I
obviously still wish to survive. At best I can hope for Berlin with at worst
a bounce. For all I know you and BEn may once again be friendly and he will
try for ENG.
I cant offer much nor think of much in the sense of moves. I could support
myself to DEN but Ben could retreat to BER. All I can come up with is MUN -
BER and RUH - KIE and hope for the best. Or maybe a push for HOL supported
by France. Let me know. I think the problem lay in that support for KIE from
DEN was never offered (nor asked for). I was awaiting some kind of bone or
scraps for the spring move. As it didnt come I came to the conclusion that
FR were gunning for me. Paranoia sucks.
tony
Message from Germany to England
What do you really want BEn? Let me know time is tunning out.
Message from Germany to Austria
You gonna lay down and die or will i see the AT attack on Russia
materialize?
Good luck
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
I salute you, my distant friend.
If you don't mind me asking, what's in the cards over there this year? I'll be glad to keep the information to myself, if you ask, or to dispense it, if you would prefer.
But it is affecting my plans & I am hoping you will be willing to share.
Best of luck, holding what you've got.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
It's a close call. The only thing I *don't* want is me to support RUH - BEL, and for you not to order it. I do not want to be made a fool again.
I could go either way - if you will go RUH - BEL then I will support it. But if you won't, just tell me, and I'll go with your group plan (RUH - MUN, MUN - BER).
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Dont worry about me not communicating it. You couldnt beat Frances move to
PIE anyway. I still have the wet pants to prove it. Will you be vacating KIE
and taking DEN from there?
This ensures that I at least can offer resistance via land against Russia
and against France if you opt for that. If we dont hear from France before
the deadline or bed time then we could go for BEL. I will set wait. Will you
be available before the deadline and before I go to bed? Thats about another
4 hours from now.
Tony
Message from England to France
Erik -
I hadn't heard from you & Tony was pressing me to give him an answer, so I went ahead and authorized RUH - BEL. I think if he does it, fine, if he goes with his "group" plan, that's fine too, but either way GR is weakened at the expense of EF. You will get your build & I will get mine. I don't think I need to tell you, I would be some kind of moron if I actually *supported* the attack; the very best case scenario would then be that I'd started a war with you but gained no - zero - dots. My mother did raise a fool, but that's my stepbrother, and not me.
Do you have any idea whether Andy will order PIE - TYR? I'm guessing he won't, because of Tony's group press, which is the reason I suggested Tony go RUH - BEL. Give up on MUN & try to get myself into BER; at the very least, keep Russia out.
What do you think?
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Dont worry about me not communicating it. You couldnt beat Frances move to
> PIE anyway. I still have the wet pants to prove it.
:-)
> Will you be vacating KIE
> and taking DEN from there?
I don't know yet.
> This ensures that I at least can offer resistance via land against Russia
> and against France if you opt for that. If we dont hear from France before
> the deadline or bed time then we could go for BEL. I will set wait. Will you
> be available before the deadline and before I go to bed? Thats about another
> 4 hours from now.
Um, which version did you set wait for? I will send compatible orders.
I'll let you know if I hear something.
Ben
Message from Russia to Germany
Good point. While I said I did not want Den moving, I didn't clarify that it
could have supported you. If I had been more on the ball, I could have I will
admit that I wasn't doing much in the way of diploming last season (nor this
season).
And I do understand you want to survive. I was never planning on taking
action to keep that from happening. It is the distinction of staying alive
vs. rebuilding at home that I was asking about.
I still think that you moving on Kie is the best bet -- I'm expecting that
Ben will move to Ber, and I can bounce him there, which keeps you at two (Ber
and Kie) and in position to take Hol next year. I also have reason to believe
that France will try for Mun (though I continue to suggest he focus on
Bel/Hol) so don't think that you can really try for Mun-Kie. In fact, given
the expectation of France moving to Mun, I'd probably move something there
myself to bounce him as you vacate. This again assumes that you not growing
but still surviving is an acceptable role. Is it? And if so, does this all
sound good?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
I hadn't offered anything specific in terms of centers, but yes, I did say
that I expected you'd want one back. Sorry, I did fail to connect the dots
between the "you can force Den" and "but consider the dangers of forcing Den"
presses. I probably should have been clearer that the us working together
does not preclude you taking a center.
That said, the Kie/Ber support scenario is also very doable. It's basically
what I would order anyway if we were fighting (just with you taking Ber
instead of me) since F Den doesn't have anything useful to do itself. Is that
the way you'd prefer to go.
No worries on the relative lack of press. I'll be lucky to get in a second
round this afternoon myself.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
********
I hadn't offered anything specific in terms of centers, but yes, I did say
that I expected you'd want one back. Sorry, I did fail to connect the dots
between the "you can force Den" and "but consider the dangers of forcing Den"
presses. I probably should have been clearer that the us working together
does not preclude you taking a center.
********
I can read between the lines (and read the lines themselves) and see you are busy these days. I know *my* press gets confusing when I'm busy - don't sweat it.
********
That said, the Kie/Ber support scenario is also very doable. It's basically
what I would order anyway if we were fighting (just with you taking Ber
instead of me) since F Den doesn't have anything useful to do itself. Is that
the way you'd prefer to go.
********
In the long run we may have more shuffling to do, but if you can *support* KIE - DEN and *support* KIE - BER, please confirm.
********
No worries on the relative lack of press. I'll be lucky to get in a second
round this afternoon myself.
********
I know you can do it. . . Do what I do - play Dip when you should be doing more important things. . .
Ben
Message from Germany to England
> Um, which version did you set wait for? I will send compatible orders.>
Um none yet. Apparently I havent submitted any moves so I didnt have to set
wait.
I spoke to soon, list the game. There is no set wait.
I am currently replying to all my games. Been busy for 2 1/2 hours now ;-)
I see floc.net is messed up here and there. My personal page is not showing
proper statuses.
At least Gc2 is looking ok.
Movement orders for Fall of 1905. (c2.019)
Germany: Army Ruhr, No Order Processed.
Germany: Army Munich, No Order Processed.
Orders not received for all units. If complete orders are not
received by Wed Jan 14 2004 23:30:00 -0600, you will be considered late.
You will be considered abandoned if all orders
are not received by
Mon Jan 19 2004 23:30:00 -0600.
Still here for a few hours yet. Plenty of time to at least coordinate our
moves.
I have heared from Russia and Italy, nothing from France, Turkey and
Austria.
Tony
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> I have heared from Russia and Italy,
> nothing from France, Turkey and
> Austria.
I guessed from your group press that Italy appears not to be ordering PIE -
TYR. Is that right?
Ben
Message from Germany to Russia
> Good point. While I said I did not want Den moving, I didn't clarify that
it
could have supported you.>
I am to blame too. There is what you call a "fetch"and "bring" duty.
If someone doesnt bring you information then go fetch it.
I took the non-offer as support as a sure sign of the stab. I should have
just asked for the support. Then Holland would have fell and the fleet
destroyed. Darnnnnnnnnnn....oh well.......we live and learn.
> And I do understand you want to survive. I was never planning on taking
action to keep that from happening. It is the distinction of staying alive
vs. rebuilding at home that I was asking about.>
Your other moves obviously showed your good intent. We would now have the
luxury of me on paper at least owning hol/kie/ber. I would then have been at
your mercy regarding the build.
> I still think that you moving on Kie is the best bet -- I'm expecting that
Ben will move to Ber, and I can bounce him there, which keeps you at two
(Ber and Kie) and in position to take Hol next year. I also have reason to
believe that France will try for Mun (though I continue to suggest he focus
on
Bel/Hol) so don't think that you can really try for Mun-Kie. In fact, given
the expectation of France moving to Mun, I'd probably move something there
myself to bounce him as you vacate. This again assumes that you not growing
but still surviving is an acceptable role. Is it? And if so, does this all
sound good?>
wow, hang on let me get a coffee. Be right back.
*slurp*..... I havent heared from France yet. The last suggestion that was
floated arround was everyone support me in MUN whilst Italy cuts support
from TYR. I tried to cinvince him that AT were coming after you (can you
blame me). I said it would be safe to cover VEN with one unit and cut
support from TYR. As far as I know France is supporting MUN as RUH is (as
far as he knows). Your offer sounds best so far. I was even considering
moving on KIE and HOL.
To be honest if I was Ben then I would be coming for you. KIE cant be forced
out and ber covered at the same time.
He must surely guess that you or france will hit mun. If he knows he is
hitting den then kie is safe.
I am probably exit this round. The only road I havent walked down is france
supporting me into hol.
Still a few hours left yet. I will get back to you.
tony
Message from Germany to England
That was in his last press to me. I mentioned what I had sent to AT and what
Russia told me.
I said as far as I could tell VEN wasnt in any trouble. One unit would be
enough to safeguard it. I asked him to reconsider. Russia wants me to hit
KIE. I want you to hit DEN from KIE.
Still no news from France.
Tony
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Russia wants me to hit
> KIE. I want you to hit DEN from KIE.
Yes, well of course I will not plan on losing KIE (or HOL), etc., but I have
not decided yet exactly how I will approach DEN. In the end it will depend
on Erik, I think, which reminds me:
> Still no news from France.
Per Erik, yesterday, MAO is there "for defense."
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Eric wants me to hit DEN whsilt he "bounces" with you in BER. Hmmmmmmm.
I see France is at least talking to you. I guess that the EFGI is out the
window. I am having trouble with floc.net so will be on line another hour or
two rechecking all press and invalid moves. Let me know if you want to go
for the BEL option.
My moves are still not in. Currently I am thinking MUN - BER, I can let RF
decide who gets MUN. RUH as yet undecided.
Tony
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Eric wants me to hit DEN whsilt he "bounces" with you in BER.
> Hmmmmmmm.
This is good news as it tells me what I must do. I am glad to have a signal
at last.
> I see France is at least talking to you. I guess that the
> EFGI is out the window.
Don't be too sure - I think he would rather have a German MUN than a Russian
one.
> I am having trouble with floc.net so will be on line
> another hour or two rechecking all press and invalid
> moves. Let me know if you want to go for the BEL option.
Well, having corresponded with noone but you since we last discussed it a
few hours ago, I've changed my own mind & am now leaning toward RUH - MUN.
Frankly if we don't hear from Erik until the deadline, that's a good sign
that he may do as you've asked.
> My moves are still not in. Currently I am thinking MUN - BER,
> I can let RF decide who gets MUN. RUH as yet undecided.
Got it.
I am trying to work with you & it is R and F fighting over your scraps -
capturing HOL will get you killed for sure. I won't want you & FR won't
need you.
Ben
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Well, I'll see what I can do for you. Good luck holding on. If you want
> to go with Germany's suggestion, let me know.
Hi Jason,
Sorry, I got really busy and had some internet problems.
Obviously, I haven't had much time to think about it and
I'm prepare to defer to your judgement regarding the
situation.
How do you want to go about it exactly?
Philippe
Message from Austria to Italy
> I changed my orders at the 11th hour...
>
> Because until I got buy in from other powers to slow down the Russian, my
> your stab would have worked.
>
> When 2 people told me that you had told them that we hadnt spoken at all I
> decided to cover my bases.
In response to his three way press, I did tell Tony that you
didn't reply to my own press and that I didn't believe you
when you finally did, but I find it hard to believe you would
actually use this to justify your moves.
Philippe
Message from England to France
Erik -
Ok, as far as I can tell, currently Eric is edging out Tony for Biggest Snake, based on press I've received this phase.
So I will leave it up to you, but I've encouraged Tony now to go RUH - MUN, and you can support him if you like. Of course who knows what he'll do, but that was my suggestion to him. My thinking is, Russia will lose as much as possible.
As you say, you can build A PAR and we can push through Germany when that unit arrives at the front.
Ben
Message from Austria to Russia
Hi Eric,
Sorry for the delay, outside interference :-)
> My main question for you is strategic, not tactical: is it more important to
> try to eliminate (or hamstring) Jason now, which helps Andy, or should we try
> to get the two of them to fight some more. Andy thinks that with F Rum that
> Jason will not be after him. My original plan was that once Jason took Gre
> (which he still might), then we can attack him when he has no chance of
> getting any more builds. Now that I stuck him in Gal (ack) and he can still
> pick up Gre, there's the concern that with a build it'll be hard to press
> him.
With France ready to move in the Med. now that England
is moving north, I wouldn't worry too much about helping
Andy; but if you think it's preferable, and possible, to get
the two of them fighting, this is something else.
> If I take Ser/Rum, then I should hold even in centers -- or get a build if
> I'm lucky in the north. If you take Ser, then you could build a fleet, which
> eventually is going to be important if we want to put pressure on Ven, but A
> Gal will probably kill me in the meantime. That's as far as my thinking has
> gotten at this point.
While a fleet on the other side of Jason will be usefull to us
in the long term, it wouldn't be able to cooperate with the
rest of our forces in the mean time, unless you want to help
France wich would tend to favor his development more then
yours. So, I think supporting you in is the best move.
By the way, Tony has suggested a crazy plan to AT and I'm
getting back to Jason who wanted to know if I wanted to go
for it. In this plan, I'm to support myself in Bud while Jason
go for Bul-Rum supported by Ser, Bla-Sev & Gal-War. If
Jason really mean to go for this plan, we would simply need
to send Ukr to Sev instead of War & Sil to War instead of
Ber to see you get Ser & keep Rum.
Anyway, I will let you know when I hear back from him and
I'm entering Tri s a bud-ser & Vie-Bud as per my suggestion
in the mean time.
Philippe
Message from Germany to Russia
England knows of the bounce in BER expectation. It seemned to strike a note
with him. He is sure France will support RUH - MUN. He is asking that I go
for BER and move RUH - MUN.
My moves are still not in and will be based on what I hear up to the
deadline from EIFR. Any new news? tips?
Message from Germany to England
So no attack on BEL. MAybe I could opt for my own destruction and order
MUN - KIE supported by RUH?
This still allows you to use DEN as you wish and retreat to BER, RT can sort
MUN out. Unless he was serious about bouncing with you in BER? He seems
certain you will go there, either you have both agreed on it or he has
concluded it from talks with you. I had turned against him as the last moves
showed. I could have asked for support from DEN for KIE and have moved RUH -
HOL supported by KIE. This would have destroyed HOL. I hope you see that I
was/am on your side. If I am to be eliminated this round then I may do moves
we all regret or not. I dont get the feeling that we have open
communication.
Message from Italy to Austria
> > When 2 people told me that you had told them that we hadnt spoken at all I
> > decided to cover my bases.
>
> In response to his three way press, I did tell Tony that you
> didn't reply to my own press and that I didn't believe you
> when you finally did, but I find it hard to believe you would
> actually use this to justify your moves.
Not really justify. Tell you what I was thinking.
I got a feeling that you werent being totally honest with me.
Russia and Germany are the 2 people that told me.
Message from Russia to France
> Frankly, I would feel more comfortable if *I* took Munich with your
> support. Not a gain for you, of course, but I need the build badly,
I see your point.
> and frankly, you're doing pretty well.
Yeah, I see that point as well. :) Sorry, I'm writing quickly and just
assumed you were looking at Bel/Hol over Mun.
> If you can patch up the relationship
> with Jason, you're unstoppable in Central Europe and doing fine up North
> until I can bring some power to bear up there. It will be more efficient
> for both of us if I can get a second build and get a fleet build in Bre.
Fair enough.
> I am trying to convince Jason that it's not a good idea to stop his
> attack on Andy when he sees me starting one -- it's counterproductive
> for both of us. Any suggestions you could send his away along the same
> theme would be helpful.
Trust me, not a press to Jason goes by where I don't make this point as
strongly as possible!
> I think you can expect an attack on Den and Ber (which isn't yours, but
> might as well be by this point). Tony seems to have decided to work
> against you now, though we all know how quickly he could flip sides.
:) Tony is a piece of work. I admire his tenacity, even though I hate playing
against it.
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Germany
It's a shame Russia and I didn't talk through the previous move. Knowing
what I did about the English moves (I did believe Ben) Then the support from
DEN and my attack on HOL would have meant that I was in a much better
position than I am now.
ER are intwined, It's a shame Ben isnt being fully open with me. He also
sees possibilities which I dont. I think his best bet would be to go after
Russia. Since I turned on Russia Ben seems suddenly a lot stronger.
Still a few hours to go but I am off to bed in 45 minutes. Maybe something
will turn up else it is exit Germany.
Message from France to England
>
> Erik -
> Ok, as far as I can tell, currently Eric is edging out Tony for Biggest
> Snake, based on press I've received this phase.
Yeah, mainly because he's a craftier, less random snake. At least you can
count on Tony constantly spouting off nonsense.
>
> So I will leave it up to you, but I've encouraged Tony now to go RUH -
> MUN, and you can support him if you like. Of course who knows what
> he'll do, but that was my suggestion to him. My thinking is, Russia
> will lose as much as possible.
And what are you doing? Den / Norway attack? Holding onto Kiel? I am
curious how much of a dent we're making on Russia.
If I move to Spa (sc), I may need that "you made me do it" story from you
to back me up.
Erik
Message from France to England and Germany
I think Andy is going to end up supporting himself back into Venice, FYI. I
wouldn't count on any help from Tyr.
Erik
Message from Germany to France
Ben did first mention supporting me to BEL but later retracted it. After
that he was unwilling to stae his moves.
Have you considerd BEL - HOL and BUR - BEL?
I am not counting on your support to MUN. The deadline is here and I have
ordered other moves. I may as well die trying something at least.
Message from Germany to England and France
I am not counting on support to MUN either from BUR. It hasnt been
confirmed.
I just submitted my moves but I can change them within the next 15 minutes.
Message from Germany to England
I know Erik doesnt trust you to much. That is why he didnt support me to
MUN. That probably also explains your message about his explanation for
being in MAO. Have you considerd that he may push for HOL & follow up to
BEL?
Message from Germany to Germany
I will opt for MUN - BER and RUH - KIE.
The French silence is not a good sign.
Message from Germany to Russia
I am moving on KIE so KIE will be cut. If you are holding DEN again then
support of RUH - KIE would be appreciated.
Message from France to Germany
>
> Ben did first mention supporting me to BEL but later retracted it. After
> that he was unwilling to stae his moves.
> Have you considerd BEL - HOL and BUR - BEL?
That's why I didn't want to promise you the support. I don't want to
support something I can't guarantee. If I don't need Bur elsewhere,
though, I will support Ruhr - Mun, if it's appropriate.
Erik
Message from Germany to all
Once again I have found myself seduced by Russia, England & France
I will roll a dice
1 = ruh - hol, mun - kie
2 = mun - kie supported by ruh
3 = ruh - kie supported by mun
4 = mun - ber, ruh - kie
5 = ruh s mun, mun s pie - tyr
6 = ruh - hol, mun - ber
7 = ruh hold, mun hold
No blowing or making sudden movements once I release the dice
Message from Germany to France
It wont be appropiate as I wont be RUH - MUN.
Russia has indicated he wants MUN we cant stop him.
Do what you wish, I could support you into HOL but maybe I should just rely
on the dice.
None of the moves mentioned in 1 - 6 effect you.
Good luck
Message from Germany to Germany
Since I have no EF consensus I have changed my mind and opted for MUN - BEr
and RUH - KIE.
Message from Germany to Russia
My moves are in. MUN - BER and RUH - KIE
Message from Germany to all
Dice rolled.....thanks for not influencing the outcome ;-)
Message from Turkey to Austria
I'll take out Bud, so if you just mutually support, you should be fine.
If he goes Bud - Tri, Boh S Tyr - Vie, you'll lose it, but nothing we
can do about that.
jason
Message from England to France and Germany
Gentlemen -
This is to make the commitment to the two of you that I've made to you
separately. I would like to see RUH - MUN and MUN - BER, supported by BUR.
I will be pushing north as promised.
Godspeed.
Ben
Message from Austria to Italy
> Not really justify. Tell you what I was thinking.
OK, but it is funny to see you refer to Tri-Ven as an austrian stab.
> I got a feeling that you werent being totally honest with me.
>
> Russia and Germany are the 2 people that told me.
Unless you are refering to my explaining to Russia I wasn't taking
the time to negociate with anyone before the adjustment when I
came back from the holydays, I must say I'm clueless as to what
you are refering to; and I doubt it's that as I was talking about
your lack of participation in putting forth a strategy to take on RT
in the SPRING, beside sending me curt replies that weren't at all
reassuring of course.
Message from Austria to Russia
Hi,
If I'm to believe him, Jason is going for the attack
on Bud instead and I'm simply to self-support
what I have still left.
So, it seem my evaluation of the board was right
and Tony's plan was just a crazy thought on his
part.
Good luck,
Philippe
Message from Russia to Germany
I don't know if you'll get this, but I still vote for supporting yourself
Kie-Mun. Odds are high that England will tap Den, so Ruh-Den will likely not
succeed. Similarly Kie-Ber still bounces you. In the end it will be no
movement.
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Turkey
> I'll take out Bud, so if you just mutually support, you should be fine.
> If he goes Bud - Tri, Boh S Tyr - Vie, you'll lose it, but nothing we
> can do about that.
The understanding being that Bud will be ceded to
me afterward I hope...
Philippe
Message from Russia to England
<Insert normal time-limitation excuse here>
You are aware that Tony may order Ruh S Mun-Kie, in which case you'd only end
up in Ber, right?
I'm definitely concerned about that Army in Gal, but I can't fight a two
(three?) front war. It's definitely worth supporting you to settle our
borders down.
Hope all is well in RL with you, and good luck with the turn. If France does
not grab for HOL you should be in good shape.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
Quick notes.
Sounds like it's then likely that Vie-Bud will bounce. I shouldn't need to
move anything to Vie (to ensure I don't lose units), but I'll consider it if
I've got spares. (Don't worry -- if I move in that direction, I won't do it
with support, regardless).
I greatly appreciate the intel you've been providing. FWIW, Andy seems
confident that he can't trust anything you say, but he's still worried about
Jason and Erik. I don't know that you'll be able to trust him with
confidential info, but there's a chance we can keep them squabbling over Gre.
If there's anything else I'll try to drop you a line, but I realize it may
already be past your last mail check as it is.
Take care, and good luck.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> <Insert normal time-limitation excuse here>
:-)
> You are aware that Tony may order Ruh S Mun-Kie, in which case you'd only
end
> up in Ber, right?
Yes. Lots of bad things could happen.
> I'm definitely concerned about that Army in Gal, but I can't fight a two
> (three?) front war. It's definitely worth supporting you to settle our
> borders down.
So you are supporting me to BER and to KIE? Did I mention, I'm a lawyer?
> Hope all is well in RL with you, and good luck with the turn. If France
does
> not grab for HOL you should be in good shape.
Yes, that's what I'm hoping for.
Ben
Message from Russia to Russia
Well, my press says most of it. Namely, "sorry, really busy" and "what the
heck is going on?" No idea what I'll do. The failure to talk to Tony last
season was a huge mistake if that's what caused him to turn. I'm seriously
considering making an all out attack on both E and T (if Tony will offer Ruh
S Mun-Kie) in order to get a couple of quick builds and push forward.
The flaws in that thinking are: it guarantee's stop the leader behavior
(assuming we're not already seeing it), getting Jason's centers requires a
really quick build and not covering Sev which seems like a huge longshot, it
virtually guarantees that EF will not continue to fight, and even if I get to
17 centers on this path (which seems unlikely), without a solo it's an
unsustainable 17.
But with the amount of time I've been able to spend on press, I'm afraid that
I'm going to fall further and further out of touch with the game, so time's a
factor too. If Philippe hadn't been propping me up the last few turns (which
I'm ashamed to say has been crucial for me), I'd be in really bad shape.
Hopefully the fun of basically running my units for the last few turns is
enough to keep him happy, rather than leading him to want an actual comeback.
--- Eric
Message from England to France
Erik -
> > Ok, as far as I can tell, currently Eric is edging out Tony for Biggest
> > Snake, based on press I've received this phase.
>
> Yeah, mainly because he's a craftier, less random snake. At least you can
> count on Tony constantly spouting off nonsense.
True, true.
> > So I will leave it up to you, but I've encouraged Tony now to go RUH -
> > MUN, and you can support him if you like. Of course who knows what
> > he'll do, but that was my suggestion to him. My thinking is, Russia
> > will lose as much as possible.
>
> And what are you doing? Den / Norway attack? Holding onto Kiel? I am
> curious how much of a dent we're making on Russia.
I'm still not 100% sure. Didn't you suggest I go for BER? Eric is still
writing me and I'm trying to peer through the haze to see what's really
going on. What are you hearing from him?
> If I move to Spa (sc), I may need that "you made me do it" story from you
> to back me up.
:-) Diplomatic Frenchmen are often stuck in SPA/sc. You won't be the
first. . .
Of course you will have my story. If you like, I can start spreading it
now, so Andy knows ahead of time, or I can wait. If I don't hear from you,
I'll keep my mouth shut.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
Could you bounce me in HOL, to keep Tony out, and tap MUN from BUR?
Then I'd take DEN & be happy with my one build. You'd get your army &
we'll be on our way.
Ben
Message from Russia to England
You still out there? I'm happy to order the supports, but I'm concerned that
you may not know that they are coming (making them immaterial).
--- Eric
Message from England to France
Erik -
Moves are in based on a bounce in HOL, but I will be up & about until near
the deadline.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Tentative moves are in, but I will be up & about until near the deadline.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> You still out there? I'm happy to order the supports, but I'm concerned
that
> you may not know that they are coming (making them immaterial).
Ho ho! Our messengers crossed paths.
Good.
What do you hear from Erik?
Ben
Message from Russia to England
So are you taking the support?
Erik is weighing the pros and cons of attacking you vs. attacking Andy. I
think he wants to try both. He wanted me to support him to Mun, but I said
no. That probably means he'll try for Hol, unless you have some arrangement
with him (like a bounce) to keep that from happening.
FWIW, Tony assures me that Kie will not be able to operate against Den, but
that's not really telling either of us much.
I should be able to get press in for the next little bit. It's apparently the
only time I'm available for such things. :(
--- Eric
Message from France to England
Yes, I can do the bounce on in Holland, if you'd like. I did suggest you
take Ber; I was merely trying to feel out what was going to happen next
turn.
So bounce in Hol, and I suppose I should support Tony just to keep
Russia from growing.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
>> Frankly, I would feel more comfortable if *I* took Munich with your
>> support. Not a gain for you, of course, but I need the build badly,
>I see your point.
>> and frankly, you're doing pretty well.
>Yeah, I see that point as well. :) Sorry, I'm writing quickly and just
assumed you were looking at Bel/Hol over Mun.
I can hold Bel but may not be able to take Holland. I know it's late,
but if you get this, can you confirm support into Munich? I've got one
build, but two would be dandy.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Yes, I can do the bounce on in Holland, if you'd like. I did suggest you
> take Ber; I was merely trying to feel out what was going to happen next
> turn.
Ok. Good.
> So bounce in Hol, and I suppose I should support Tony just to keep
> Russia from growing.
Excellent. I feel like we are getting on track.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> So are you taking the support?
;-) I began a follow up to you but realized you hadn't responded yet. I
was going to point out, we still hadn't actually *agreed* to do it.
Perhaps you are a lawyer, too. . .
Yes, I am taking the support. Please tell me one more time you are
ordering it, because hell, I'm up this late anyway. It had crossed my mind
it might be a double-cross, but I don't know why you would cross me up with
my fleets much closer to you then to any of your possible companions. . .
> Erik is weighing the pros and cons of attacking you vs. attacking Andy. I
> think he wants to try both. He wanted me to support him to Mun, but I said
> no. That probably means he'll try for Hol, unless you have some
arrangement
> with him (like a bounce) to keep that from happening.
I'm such a moron I only just thought of a bounce earlier today. But he
agreed to it, so hopefully. . .
> FWIW, Tony assures me that Kie will not be able to operate against Den,
but
> that's not really telling either of us much.
True.
> I should be able to get press in for the next little bit. It's apparently
the
> only time I'm available for such things. :(
Good lord, it's late here. If it wasn't move night, I'd already be in bed.
. .
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> > Yes, I can do the bounce on in Holland, if you'd like. I did suggest you
> > take Ber; I was merely trying to feel out what was going to happen next
> > turn.
> Ok. Good.
This meant, yes, let's bounce.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Ok, I'm going to bed.
I'm counting on the supports & I'll be one mad Baltimorean if you don't
order them.
Ben
Message from Russia to England
The only reason I can think of to double-cross you would be to ensure Tony
keeps his two armies. But since that would mean that you would end up
retreating retreat into Bal, that seems a poor plan. :)
--- Eric
Austria: Army Trieste SUPPORT Russian Army Budapest → Serbia
Austria: Army Vienna → Budapest (*bounce*)
England: Fleet Helgoland Bight → Kiel
England: Fleet Kiel → Berlin
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean HOLD
England: Fleet North Sea → Holland (*bounce*)
England: Fleet Skagerrak → North Sea (*bounce*)
France: Army Belgium → Holland (*bounce*)
France: Army Burgundy → Munich (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Gulf of Lyon → Marseilles
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Portugal
France: Fleet Portugal → Spain (south coast)
Germany: Army Munich → Berlin (*bounce, destroyed*)
Germany: Army Ruhr → Kiel (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Greece → Albania
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Adriatic Sea
Italy: Army Piedmont SUPPORT Army Tuscany → Venice
Italy: Army Tuscany → Venice
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Ionian Sea
Russia: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Army Tyrolia → Munich
Russia: Army Budapest → Serbia
Russia: Fleet Denmark SUPPORT English Fleet Helgoland Bight → Kiel
Russia: Fleet Rumania HOLD
Russia: Army Silesia SUPPORT English Fleet Kiel → Berlin
Russia: Army St Petersburg → Norway (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Sweden → Norway (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Tyrolia → Munich
Russia: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Fleet Rumania
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea SUPPORT Fleet Eastern Mediterranean
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Rumania (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean SUPPORT Fleet Aegean Sea
Turkey: Army Galicia → Budapest (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Serbia SUPPORT Army Galicia → Budapest (*dislodged*)
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