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Russia: Fleet Denmark can retreat to Helgoland Bight
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
I had no idea he was going to do that.
Ben
Message from Italy to England and France
Ok Erik....just remember...you reap what you sew.
I told you what the consequenses of moving on me were and you chose to
ignore them.
If you think I am not capable of getting the russian to a solo before you
get me killed.......you are very short-sighted.
Attacking the guy that is holding the stalemate line is the single dumbest
fucking thing you can do in this game.
But I told you ...spelled it out to you even....your loss...this game
should be over REALLY soon.
Message from Italy to Russia
Im not sure what the hell you keep saying to the other Erik to make him do
this collasaly stupid shit, but he crossed my line of death....so I am
officially helping you solo.
He needs to be taught that the good of the many outwiegh his petty,
asanine needs for retribution on me since I have killed him in every game
we have ever shared befor this one.
I was just finished killing him in a game where I was Italy and he was
France....just as this one started.
Yes...I am totally pissed off. And its not because he is attacking
me...its because he is being so fucking stupid about it.
So....I am at your service.....I am officially helping you win. I will
give any type of advice you want, including tactical....
Tell me what you want or if you just want me to start spouting out what I
think you should do.
Message from Italy to England
>
> Andy -
> I had no idea he was going to do that.
You got carboned on my response to him.....most of it is posturing, but he
is so the fucking idiot.
Message from Turkey to Austria
Nice shot there in Bud. I'm trying to get Italy to support you from Tri,
so everyone can win.
jason
Message from Turkey to Italy
Well, that mostly worked, although it looks like France smells blood.
I can't hold Rum, but if I support Rum into Ser, I can take it, no
problem. We just need to convince Austria to hold on tight. Maybe you
can promise to support Bud?
We also probably want to get England to head south with his builds, if
only to keep France somewhat occupied. Can't have you getting taken out,
now can we? :-)
jason
Message from Turkey to England
Good job taking Den, looks like Nwy is next. Hope the Russian fleet
doesn't give you too many troubles from Hel.
It's still touchy down here, but if you, Austria and I can all take
centers from Russia, he'll be seriously hurting.
You might want to consider keeping France on his toes as well. All those
Italian centers are ripe for the taking right now, and a 10-center
France is deadly for both of us.
jason
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> You got carboned on my response to him.....most of it is posturing, but he
> is so the fucking idiot.
:-)
Yeah, I'm not sure how quickly you could really throw the solo, even if you
wanted to - premature, as you know.
The Russian moves are good for me, which should mean, they are good for you
sooner rather than later. Now if I can get him to disband. . .
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I would appreciate you disbanding the fleet. If you can't come up with a
good reason on your own, let me know, and I'll give you one.
It's not going to help you in the far north and I don't threaten you
anywhere else.
Also, if you disband your fleet, I will root for the Panthers.
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Good job taking Den, looks like Nwy is next. Hope the Russian fleet
> doesn't give you too many troubles from Hel.
I'm still hoping he disbands.
> It's still touchy down here, but if you, Austria and I can all take
> centers from Russia, he'll be seriously hurting.
I was surprised to see Austria join in the bear hunt. Good news all around.
> You might want to consider keeping France on his toes as well. All those
> Italian centers are ripe for the taking right now, and a 10-center
> France is deadly for both of us.
Yes, yes. the move against Italy was a surprise to me, too. But the
Italian centers are not so vulnerable as they appear.
Good luck.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> I would appreciate you disbanding the fleet. If you can't come up with a
> good reason on your own, let me know, and I'll give you one.
What follows, though I believe it *is* a good reason, is not nearly so
brilliant as the one I'll come up with later, if this one isn't good
enough. Let me know if you are not persuaded, is all I'm saying.
> It's not going to help you in the far north and I don't threaten you
> anywhere else.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> > You got carboned on my response to him.....most of it is posturing, but he
> > is so the fucking idiot.
> :-)
> Yeah, I'm not sure how quickly you could really throw the solo, even if you
> wanted to - premature, as you know.
He is at 11 now and there are 9 centers on the east side of the stalemate
line, this doesnt include my home centers.
> The Russian moves are good for me, which should mean, they are good for you
> sooner rather than later. Now if I can get him to disband. . .
Cool....lets coordinate.
Andy
Message from Russia to Italy
> Im not sure what the hell you keep saying to the other Erik to make him
> do this collasaly stupid shit, but he crossed my line of death....
I don't know for sure either -- and that's not my typica self-depricating
manner speaking. I tried to convince him that moving north was a better idea
if he didn't want to join an STL, because that way he might actually get some
centers before Ben got them off of me. When he declared his adamance (is that
a word?) for moving south first, I of course said I'd help him out (what else
do you say to someone saying they're going to attack a current adversary),
but frankly he was already settled on his course of action.
> So....I am at your service.....I am officially helping you win. I will
> give any type of advice you want, including tactical....
Well, I certainly can't complain about that being the conditions for
cooperation!
> Tell me what you want or if you just want me to start spouting out what
> I think you should do.
I think you've gotten to know me well enough to know that I'm always happy to
hear advice, even if I come up with different ideas myself. And since I'll be
leaving for six hours of meetings in a few minutes, I won't be thinking of
much in the meantime, and wouldn't mind some starter suggestions.
The first thing that comes to mind quickly is help around Bul. But more
strategically we probably need to figure out a good way to make sure you're
not losing too many centers to hold him off before worrying about me getting
too far into Turkey.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
First off, sorry that I didn't respond to your last message (the "as you wish
one"), though I will admit that your moves seem to be somwhat in contrast to
that statement. I guess it's a good thing I didn't send my "well then, have
fun storming the castle" response, as you stormed it all together too well.
:)
> I would appreciate you disbanding the fleet. If you can't come up with
> a good reason on your own, let me know, and I'll give you one.
I'd like to hear this. From my point of view the fleet is the logical disband
in Winter, but having it hang around to protect Swe makes sense in Fall, as
otherwise you have four units attacking two centers, and I lose all of
Scandinavia at once. I'm perfectly willing to lose it slowly, but I need some
chance to restructure. So holding it seems to make sense to me.
> What follows, though I believe it *is* a good reason, is not nearly so
> brilliant as the one I'll come up with later, if this one isn't good
> enough. Let me know if you are not persuaded, is all I'm saying.
At first I thought you were going to reference the Panthers comment here! :)
> > It's not going to help you in the far north and I don't threaten you
> > anywhere else.
As noted above, it helps in the short term to make sure that there's a
depressurization. I'm not interested in protracted fighting with you, because
I agree that I gave up Scandinavia when I (twice) chose not to build fleets
when I had the opportunity. Moving Mun further shows my willingness to
cooperate -- I can't try to use Mun/Hel to take centers from you.
So I'm not thinking of keeping the fleet from the point of view of working
with Erik against you -- if he's making gains in the south then frankly I
don't want him to also make gains in the north. So let me hear the reasoning
your thinking on why keeping the fleet for a season is a bad idea -- I really
am open to hearing it, it just isn't obvious for me.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Austria
Well, all bad guesses on my part (I realized at about midnight last night
that he could do the three strength attack and the I hadn't cut any of the
supports, but didn't want to get up to change the orders).
IT cooperation would be ugly for us, since they have a ton of units on Rum
now. My gut says Ukr/Gal S Ser-Rum, Bud-Ser, and Vie S Tyl-Tri. Sev either
supports Ser-Rum or cuts support from Bla. If they order Bul S Tri-Ser we
lose Ser, but hold Tri (Tyl should bounce with ???-Tri). I'm not sure what
Arm should do. What's your thinking?
I've heard from Italy that he might turn to defend against France rather than
continuing to press against us. If that's so, then the above moves may not be
optimal. More details on that when I have it.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to Russia
Putting in your retreat would go a long way to speeding this up...
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> First off, sorry that I didn't respond to your last message (the "as you
wish
> one"), though I will admit that your moves seem to be somwhat in contrast
to
> that statement. I guess it's a good thing I didn't send my "well then,
have
> fun storming the castle" response, as you stormed it all together too
well.
> :)
It's just as well - I'm pretty sure we've done that round of quotes before,
anyway.
I didn't think you would infer I was preparing to attack France this phase
- it was not really possible - I just thought you'd be pleased to see the
army land on HOL rather than DEN or NWY.
> > I would appreciate you disbanding the fleet. If you can't come up with
> > a good reason on your own, let me know, and I'll give you one.
>
> I'd like to hear this. From my point of view the fleet is the logical
disband
> in Winter, but having it hang around to protect Swe makes sense in Fall,
as
> otherwise you have four units attacking two centers, and I lose all of
> Scandinavia at once. I'm perfectly willing to lose it slowly, but I need
some
> chance to restructure. So holding it seems to make sense to me.
Ok, thank you for being patient while I dug around in my brain.
First let me acknowledge the reasons to make the retreat to HEL:
1. a forward retreat, pushing a unit into an advanced position
2. you can always disband it later
You point to both of these, I believe correctly dispensing with #1, and
focussing on #2. The problem with #1 is, if you go to HEL, you are (as you
say) only slowing the depressurization, as you put it. You do not have,
and will not have in the foreseeable future, other forward units in the
region. And that one is already surrounded - it's hardly behind enemy
lines.
So, the real question is, what about #2, what about disbanding it this
coming winter. That would work fine *if* you were assured the opportunity
to make such a disband. But what if your center count breaks even? Easy
enough to imagine - take enough centers to compensate for the one(s) you
are losing. It is not impossible. Hold MUN, slip into TRI & RUM (or
whatever); perhaps turn Turkey and save a dot that way.
The thing is, if you break even, there will be *no* removal for you, but if
you've disbanded F DEN, and break even, you will get to *build* an A WAR,
or A SEV, or whatever, which will keep you from getting rolled up like Joe
Theisman.
Let me throw this into the mix. Disband or not disband F DEN, I will be
pushing for SWE and NWY. If you disband, I will stop short of STP. If you
do not, I will not rest until I have that godless frozen tundra under the
English crown.
Yes, I am offering to pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. But will you
get a better offer from the eels?
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> > The Russian moves are good for me, which should mean, they are good for
you
> > sooner rather than later. Now if I can get him to disband. . .
>
> Cool....lets coordinate.
After the retreat. If he disbands - not likely, but possible - I should
get the builds I need this year.
Ben
Message from England to England
Well, the results were a wonder to behold. Erik finally pushing out toward
Italy, and Austria turning against Russia. If Russia disbands his
retreating F DEN, which in my non-existent fantasy world, he will, I should
be building three while Erik builds none. Andy would not be able to
protest as I crowd the gates of the Med; meanwhile I would be utterly
unopposed in the North. . .
Not likely, but as I said, this is my fantasy world.
Ben
Message from France to England
No, I'm not terribly worried about Andy throwing to the Russian. If I
were, I wouldn't have moved on him so aggressively. Yes, Tunis is a key,
but in reality, so are most of the other Italian centers and a couple of
Scandanavian Russian centers, too.
I am kind of kicking myself for not trying for Munich, but it seemed
unlikely, and I suppose I wouldn't have been able to hold it, anyway.
Erik
Message from France to England and Italy
Andy:
Well, at least I figured out what to do with those fleets.
No hard feelings. Maybe I'm bad at math, but I don't see things the way
you seem to. I'm sure I'll regret it later.
Erik
Message from France to Austria
Phillipe:
Yikes, attacks from all sides. The southeast is a mess right now. If
it's any consolation, Andy must be thinking twice about his move on
Trieste now. He must certainly be suing for peace.
In any case, I seem to be in a good position to swing into the rest of
the Med now, and perhaps we can both benefit from that. If you can give
me some idea of what Italy, Russia and Turkey are saying to you, I will
try to keep them off of you the best I can. I've already suggested to
Eric that keeping you alive is to his advantage, despite your recapture
of Budapest.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
Interesting turn. Andy's screaming bloody murder at me and claiming that
I've guaranteed your victory, but with all due respect, you're not doing
*that* well. Seems like all your neighbors must be after you by this
point.
If, however, you could see fit to negotiate a peace with Austria or
Turkey so that they could make some brief gains from Andy, I will be in
a much better position to come back and put some heat on Ben. The faster
I can secure a good Mediterranean position, the faster I can swing back
up north. Perhaps we could keep Austria around a bit longer?
Erik
Message from France to Turkey
Jason:
I'm really not sure what to say to you, since we've never really been on
the same page, but as long I'm in the Mediterranean, I thought I'd try
to stay a little more chatty and drop you a line. I suppose you could
say it's a bad thing for you that I'm steaming toward Tunis, but you
could also look at it as a chance to remove the Italian from your back
once and for all. He's really not much help to you against Russia,
anyway, so wouldn't you rather remove the threat? I'm certainly not
venturing much farther than Naples, if I get the chance -- overextension
is never a good thing.
Erik
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
I guess I should have taken your suggestion, huh? My moves don't look that
great at the moment.
Sigh.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
I have bent over backwards to allow Austria to keep his center count even.
I have offered peace to Turkey, but so far he hasn't taken me up on it. So
in general, I'm in agreement with you.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
>I'm fairly open over here as well, although the balance needs to shift a
>little before I can look at changing my position again. Good luck.
So what would count as seeing the balance shift?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
As I understand your message:
Choice (a) retreat to Hel, and lose Nwy this turn, Swe the next turn, and
StP sometime shortly after that.
Choice (b) disband and lose Nwy and Swe this turn, and hold onto StP
thenceforth.
Gotta say, as much as I want to work with you, I'm thinking that going with
choice A and taking my chances might be the way to go. When I say that I
don't expect to hold onto Scandinavia, I included StP in the expected loss.
I've got the retreat in with wait set. I'll unset wait in the morning
unless there's something you tell me I'm missing.
On another point, my apologies, I do agree that convoying to Holland was
less threatening than you could have been. I was more referring to putting
NAO into Nwg -- frankly, without that I'd be more comfortable disbanding Hel.
As to center count, holding Mun means I still go down two (it's my center
now), assuming I get back control of Rum. So I don't think Hel staying
around is a realistic possibility. I'm hoping that makes it clearly less
threatening to you.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
:)
Point taken, but in this case I had a strongly worded message from Ben
about the retreats (he wants to convince me to disband), so the delay is
because of some ongoing negotiation, not foot dragging (unless you consider
them one and the same). I can't see why I should disband the fleet, but
want to give him a chance to explain why it might be worth it.
I'm giving him overnight to get back a comment. I'll unset wait after the
next round of press from him (probably early tomorrow AM).
--- Eric
Message from Turkey to France
Hey Erik, good to hear from you.
As you say, we haven't talked much, but it's certainly time we did more.
Right now Italy is certainly helping me against the Russian, especially
helping me hold down Austria. Past that, though, his fleets aren't much
use. I understand you need to expand into the Med, but I also hope that
Mun is on your list - all help against the Russian is appreciated.
Thanks for touching base. Obviously, I won't be moving west anytime
soon, but I do we can keep in touch.
jason
Message from Germany to Russia
I didnt look at the moves I sent you but I do indeed think that your
position would look a lot better than it does now. I did guess right that
Austria would chose for survival. As I said assuming everyone is hostile
usually works out best. The board always allows for diploming in hindsight.
I assume you are retreating to BAL.
This would allow bal - ber supported by sil, swe - den. At least you regain
one for the loss of three.
Ben has no reason not to order nth - nwy supported by nwg and ska - swe
supported by den.
Retreating to HEL may confuse him a little. This would allow hel - nth or
hel to den supported by sweden. Or hel - nth and swe s nwy. Eventually
though you will lose all of scandinavia.
So lets add up, you lose DEN, NWY and eventually Sweden.Thats 3. You could
lose all three now. By retreating to BAL you ensure you only lose two this
round.
You can cover MUN from SIL. But not if you chose to retreat to BAT to take
BER.
The rest of the moves all depend on what AIT will do, especially if they
work together. You may just have to go fro certain gains.
I am assuming that AT lied or at least didnt cooporate with you.
The only gain you can force is that of VIE.
So you would have to disband two.
I think given the situation everyone will lie to you.
RUM isnt definite if AT work together. It would mean that he cuts SEV and
SER and has BUD support RUM. On the other hand you could try for both
RUM/VIE
Then I would go
a tyr - vie supported by boh.
a gal - bud
a ser - bul
f arm - bla
a gal - rum supported by ukr
Retreats could be a problem if this works.
The only certainty is VIE.
a tyr - tri
a ser - bud
a gal - vie supported by boh
f arm - bla
a ukr - rum supported by sev
Personally I would probably order
a tyr - vie supported by boh
a gal - bud supported by ser
f arm - bla
a ukr - rum supported by sev
a sil - mun
You could gamble that Turkey knows RUM is lost and that he will order rum -
ser supported by bul and moves bla - sev. In that case I would order
arm - bla
ser - rum supported by sev, ukr, gal
tyr - vie supported by boh
All in all a tough call all around. You are probably looking at a loss of 3
to 4.
Good luck Eric, you will need it mate.
Message from Italy to France
>
> Well, at least I figured out what to do with those fleets.
>
> No hard feelings. Maybe I'm bad at math, but I don't see things the way
> you seem to. I'm sure I'll regret it later.
I guess you are....there are 9 centers on the east side of the board that
the Russian doesnt own, and that doesnt include my home centers...
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> I'm giving him overnight to get back a comment. I'll unset wait after the
> next round of press from him (probably early tomorrow AM).
You should absolutely catagorically NOT disband.
He is going to try to take scandanavia regardless.
Message from England to France
Erik -
> No, I'm not terribly worried about Andy throwing to the Russian. If I
> were, I wouldn't have moved on him so aggressively. Yes, Tunis is a key,
> but in reality, so are most of the other Italian centers and a couple of
> Scandanavian Russian centers, too.
Well, the Scandinavian centers will not be a problem for much longer. . .
> I am kind of kicking myself for not trying for Munich, but it seemed
> unlikely, and I suppose I wouldn't have been able to hold it, anyway.
Oh, well. I imagine it will be covered in the fall, though you may get
lucky, if you want to try.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> As I understand your message:
>
> Choice (a) retreat to Hel, and lose Nwy this turn, Swe the next turn, and
> StP sometime shortly after that.
Yep. Or something very nearly like that.
> Choice (b) disband and lose Nwy and Swe this turn, and hold onto StP
> thenceforth.
Yep. Perhaps not until the end of time, but for the foreseeable future.
The other difference, of course, is that we will have a *much* better
chance of finding common ground to start working together soon. If you
tell me, I'm going to sit in HEL - so to speak - and force me to deal with
that unit, you will be putting us in more of a warlike, hostile posture.
I would like this conflict to be efficient, so I can get on to other
things. I do not think, by dawdling in HEL, you are making it easy for me
to pull back.
> Gotta say, as much as I want to work with you, I'm thinking that going
with
> choice A and taking my chances might be the way to go. When I say that I
> don't expect to hold onto Scandinavia, I included StP in the expected
loss.
Ah, but you don't have to. And if you have already written off
Scandinavia, then you may want to reconsider alienating one of your few
friends, over centers you have already given up on.
> I've got the retreat in with wait set. I'll unset wait in the morning
> unless there's something you tell me I'm missing.
Look. It's a tough choice. I don't know what I'd do in your position.
But I am recommeding you consider the advantages of disbanding. Consider
it penance for NWY and DEN.
It's a tough choice. Good luck.
Ben
Message from Austria to Russia
> Well, all bad guesses on my part (I realized at about midnight last night
> that he could do the three strength attack and the I hadn't cut any of the
> supports, but didn't want to get up to change the orders).
>
> IT cooperation would be ugly for us, since they have a ton of units on Rum
> now. My gut says Ukr/Gal S Ser-Rum, Bud-Ser, and Vie S Tyl-Tri. Sev either
> supports Ser-Rum or cuts support from Bla. If they order Bul S Tri-Ser we
> lose Ser, but hold Tri (Tyl should bounce with ???-Tri). I'm not sure what
> Arm should do. What's your thinking?
Sorry for the delay, I think we are in trouble and would need
some time to see if there's an easy way out; but I'm pretty
sure we're losing territory this year, and alot of it.
> I've heard from Italy that he might turn to defend against France rather than
> continuing to press against us. If that's so, then the above moves may not be
> optimal. More details on that when I have it.
I sure hope so.
Philippe
Message from Austria to France
> Yikes, attacks from all sides. The southeast is a mess right now. If
> it's any consolation, Andy must be thinking twice about his move on
> Trieste now. He must certainly be suing for peace.
Haven't heard from him, but even if he were to sue
for peace, I suspect he would want to stay in Tri.
> In any case, I seem to be in a good position to swing into the rest of
> the Med now, and perhaps we can both benefit from that. If you can give
> me some idea of what Italy, Russia and Turkey are saying to you, I will
> try to keep them off of you the best I can. I've already suggested to
> Eric that keeping you alive is to his advantage, despite your recapture
> of Budapest.
Thanks, I appreciate all the help you can provide.
One thing though, I can't afford to be too liberal
with the info I'm provided with if I want to survive.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Nice shot there in Bud. I'm trying to get Italy to support you from Tri,
> so everyone can win.
I would of course prefer to regain my homeland, but if
it's no possible, survival sure look good :-)
Philippe
Message from France to Austria
>
> Thanks, I appreciate all the help you can provide.
> One thing though, I can't afford to be too liberal
> with the info I'm provided with if I want to survive.
>
Well, that depends on how you look at it. Right now, I'm about the only
person on the board who a.) doesn't have a real interest in seeing you
die; b.) is in a position to help you out; and c.) isn't your neighbor. At
this point, I would say it's in your interest to cultivate my friendship,
and about the only thing you and your two beleagured armies can offer me
*is* information. If you can't provide that, then chatting will be lovely,
but don't expect much more.
For what it's worth, I think it's crazy that you and Turkey aren't burying
any outstanding hatchets and working together. You're both stuck between
the same rock and hard place and aren't long for this world.
Erik
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Look. This is the thing. I do not want my fleets to be in HEL, BAR, STP,
etc. I want my fleets in NWY, SWE, SKA, as briefly as possible. I think
*you* want the same. By retreating to HEL, you are consigning us both to
the ugly side of that coin.
If you look at the board from my point of view, you will see what I mean.
Ben
Message from France to Turkey
>
> Right now Italy is certainly helping me against the Russian, especially
> helping me hold down Austria.
Hold down Austria? Why would you want to hold down Austria? While I'm not
privy to all the political intrique of the Southeast, I must confess that
I can't imagine that you would be doing anything except burying any
outstanding grudges and making good with Austria quick, fast and in a
hurry. He's the only other player on the board in the same position that
you are, and Lord knows, he needs a friend.
> Past that, though, his fleets aren't much
> use. I understand you need to expand into the Med, but I also hope that
> Mun is on your list - all help against the Russian is appreciated.
Yes, I'm kicking myself for not going for it last turn. It just seemed
unattainable, which Eric clearly recognized and used to his advantage.
I'll can take a shot at it, but who knows?
Erik
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
I hear you, but I think I've gotta do the retreat. As I said, I am a lock to
lose centers. I still want to work together, but I need some time to get a
chance of making up the center loss.
Scandinavia is still yours, and I don't see a way that you would pull back
before Hel gets disbanded anyway, so the argument that you'd be able to pull
back sooner doesn't seem realistic to me.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Well, my sense is you've made up your mind, but for the purpose of playing
out the string of this discussion, let me expand alittle bit:
> I hear you, but I think I've gotta do the retreat. As I said, I am a lock
to
> lose centers. I still want to work together, but I need some time to get a
> chance of making up the center loss.
See below. For the sake of argument, I will concede that you will lose
dots this year.
> Scandinavia is still yours, and I don't see a way that you would pull back
> before Hel gets disbanded anyway, so the argument that you'd be able to
pull
> back sooner doesn't seem realistic to me.
Three possibilities:
1. Disband now. In this case I can be in & out in Scandinavia. I have an
incentive to pull out immediately, because my goal is achieved.
2. Retreat now. Disband in the winter. The compromise you are perhaps
considering most likely. Slows me down and puts me in the position where
it will be more beneficial for me to finish the deal & go for STP. What
the heck - I'd be slow already. . .
3. Retreat now. Don't disband in the winter. Not sure why you would do
this. Let me know if you are thinking about it, when the time comes, and I
will hopefully find a better way to dissuade of *that* then I've found to
dissuade you of *this*.
Anyway, like I said, I think you've decided, & I'm pursuing this discussion
more for the discussion's sake than anything else. Though you should feel
free to surprise me, and disband.
Ben
Message from Italy to Turkey
> Well, that mostly worked, although it looks like France smells blood.
or opportunity.
> I can't hold Rum, but if I support Rum into Ser, I can take it, no
> problem. We just need to convince Austria to hold on tight. Maybe you
> can promise to support Bud?
I have promised the Austrian all kinds of stuff but he has been
unresponsive.
> We also probably want to get England to head south with his builds, if
> only to keep France somewhat occupied. Can't have you getting taken out,
> now can we? :-)
I would hope not.
Message from Russia to England
Fair enough.
I have entered the retreat, and will suffer the consequences, and see whether
or not we can work anything out from there.
As to your point number three (keeping F Hel), it's not likely to happen. It
would only make sense if Erik moved north against you, which for many
reasons: your upcoming builds, his infatuation with Italy, etc. is not likely
in the short term.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
Austria's moves were agreed to with me. And actually, his move suggestions
were better than yours (Rum-Bla, Ser-Bul, Ukr-Rum) which would have taken Bla
AND disbanded his army in Gal/Rum. Your suggestions were still better than
mine, just not good as his. Pretty sad actually, to come in third in quality
of orders behind one guy on the brink of elimination and another guy who has
been eliminated. :)
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
> You should absolutely catagorically NOT disband.
I unset wait on my retreat a few minutes ago.
> He is going to try to take scandanavia regardless.
That is true. However, I've taken some chances with him that have worked out
well, and if he had some really big carrot to dangle, I would have considered
it. In the end the carrot he was offering was to not attack StP down the
line, which, even if he follows through on it isn't much of a win for me.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to Russia
> > He is going to try to take scandanavia regardless.
>
> That is true. However, I've taken some chances with him that have worked out
> well, and if he had some really big carrot to dangle, I would have considered
> it. In the end the carrot he was offering was to not attack StP down the
> line, which, even if he follows through on it isn't much of a win for me.
Exactly.
So...how do we keep me alive enough to help you solo....
Lets look at this alittle differently....
1. What centers can you take/protect on your own...without anyones help.
2. What centers can you take with my help.
3. What centers can you help me into to keep me strong as well.
I have some ideas....but I want to hear yours first.
Andy
Message from Austria to France
> Well, that depends on how you look at it. Right now, I'm about the only
> person on the board who a.) doesn't have a real interest in seeing you
> die; b.) is in a position to help you out; and c.) isn't your neighbor. At
> this point, I would say it's in your interest to cultivate my friendship,
> and about the only thing you and your two beleagured armies can offer me
> *is* information. If you can't provide that, then chatting will be lovely,
> but don't expect much more.
Understood, but at the same time, you don't really have the
power to stop IR from squeezing me out of this game if they
so wishes, so I can't afford to look like a mole for the French
Empire. This being said, I will provide as much information
as I can.
> For what it's worth, I think it's crazy that you and Turkey aren't burying
> any outstanding hatchets and working together. You're both stuck between
> the same rock and hard place and aren't long for this world.
You aren't the only one and if you got some special insight
into Jason, do let me know; but since I took a dive, it does
look like Jason is less interested in me compare to his other
neighbours, so it's probably not as bad as before.
Philippe
Message from Russia to Italy
> So...how do we keep me alive enough to help you solo....
>
> Lets look at this alittle differently....
>
> 1. What centers can you take/protect on your own...without anyones help.
> 2. What centers can you take with my help.
> 3. What centers can you help me into to keep me strong as well.
>
> I have some ideas....but I want to hear yours first.
I'm running out to 5+ hours of meetings, so will respond to this either this
evening or tomorrow AM.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> I'm running out to 5+ hours of meetings, so will respond to this either this
> evening or tomorrow AM.
Eric...what the hell do you do for a university that keeps you in meetings
this way?
Message from Russia to Russia
So in the few minutes I have, I'll comment on the last move:
Sucked rocks. Should've gone with taking Bla. Even if I didn't go for
Ukr-Rum, it clearly would have been a better defense against Gal-Rum. It was
another of those, think about things tactically and come up with one answer,
then walk away from the board and realize the big picture that was missing.
Did that on my last move in my other game too. Very annoying.
On the other hand, what I said to Ben much earlier is true. I tend to play a
game of letting everyone else piss each other off, then ally with whoever is
the maddest. That's why I'm generally more comfortable with powers like A and
I than I am with ones like R and F that tend to be seen as strong from the
get-go.
I kept pressing Tony because I believed EF would never let him off the hook.
The ability to hit Ben while not alienating him meant that Tony would likely
see me as the least odious choice.
Similarly, with Philippe, I tried to keep on his side enough -- despite our
fighting -- that he'd side with me when the time came. I didn't really expect
Andy to get pushed to the edge, but realized there was a chance that Erik
would push him there. (Though I must admit that with Andy, I'm less confident
that he'll actually want to help me solo longer than it takes him to get a
build or two). If IT fight, then maybe even Jason will get sympathetic.
But it will be a sad thing if I get to the (not unlikely) position of having
to say in my EoG that I failed to solo with half the board trying to help me
succeed. :)
--- Eric
Russia: Fleet Denmark → Helgoland Bight
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