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England: Builds 2 units
France: Builds 1 unit
Germany: Removes 2 units
Italy: Builds 1 unit
Turkey: Builds 1 unit
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric....
I do have to ask one question though....
You told me that you were going to tap Bud for me, but you didnt...why?
How does it hurt you if I get a build, and Turkey doesnt, it does nothing
but help you as far as I can tell.
And this isnt supposed to sound accusatory, but its 330am here and its
been a really long day and I am tired as hell...so please dont take it
that way...
take care
Andy
Message from Turkey to Italy
It was important to me - you had me blocked in with Gre and Ser, and
your supported move to Gre tells me you were planning on using it as a
stepping stone east next turn. Now I have some breathing room.
jason
Message from Italy to Turkey
Jason,
> It was important to me - you had me blocked in with Gre and Ser, and
> your supported move to Gre tells me you were planning on using it as a
> stepping stone east next turn. Now I have some breathing room.
>
The move to Greece was so that you werent supporting yourself there, which
is what France, Russia and Austria all told me you were doing.
I was going to GIVE you Greece this year. As soon as I had a dot to
replace it, which was likely Trieste.
I just dont understand the mistrust. I have never made ANY move that can
be construed as treatening to you, and now the Russian is going to grow
like wildfire.
Germany is dead, Russia is going to get his remaining dots, and the
English ones as soon as the French and English get tangled up here.
And now that you have picked a fight with me, he can walk in your back
door.....or he can just let us stand off against each other while he
collects the rest of the board. I would suspect he will be at 12 in 2
years if not sooner.
Andy
Message from Austria to Italy
> I know that you arent going to believe me, regardless of what I say, and
> that is perfectly understandable.
>
> But if I were to ask you what you would like to see in the spring, what
> would my moves be??
Since I wasted much time before speculating on a change
of heart on your part, let's see you build a fleet in Nap first.
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria
>
> > I know that you arent going to believe me, regardless of what I say, and
> > that is perfectly understandable.
> >
> > But if I were to ask you what you would like to see in the spring, what
> > would my moves be??
>
> Since I wasted much time before speculating on a change
> of heart on your part, let's see you build a fleet in Nap first.
Its already ordered.
With that assumption, what would you like to see.
Andy
Message from Austria to England
Ben,
Sorry to see that I was right about France. Do you
know why he went your way instead of Andy?
Regards,
Philippe.
P.-S. With Jason actually attacking Andy, I would
like to know what he told you about Russia.
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> Sorry to see that I was right about France. Do you
> know why he went your way instead of Andy?
It surprised me because I don't think it was in his best interest, but I think he felt Andy's influence more than my own. :-( He will have a long ugly fight to get anything from me, though, while instead he could be cleaning the Italian clock.
> P.-S. With Jason actually attacking Andy, I would
> like to know what he told you about Russia.
Hm. Well, I'd suggested AT v R, and he wanted to know whether I thought that was preferable to AT v I, and I basically agreed. It was not a firm commitment but he seemed open to the idea. Keep it in mind.
Ben
Message from Turkey to England
Nice move into Germany. Looks like the I vs F attack didn't come off
yet, though. I assume A Gas will get convoyed soon enough.
Any chance of you taking advantage of Russia getting no builds this turn
in Scandinavia? Looks tasty. :-)
jason
Message from Turkey to Russia
Everything seemed to go well, except for Greece. Apparently, Austria
tipped Italy off to my move there.
I assume we'll try the Rum/Bla shuffle now?
jason
Message from Turkey to Austria
Thanks again for your support into Ser. Too bad about Greece, but
apparently Russia tipped off Italy. I guess he doesn't want me getting
too big for my britches. :-)
jason
Message from Turkey to Italy
Andy, your policy toward me for the last several years has been one of
containment. You want me to accept a situation where a 6 center Italy
and a 7 center Russia face a 4 center Turkey. That seems to me to be a
recipe for disaster.
I agree Russia is a threat, but as a 4 center power, I have no way of
moving on him, and I'm not sure why you would think I could. I'm willing
to work with you to our mutual advantage, but that can't mean me as your
vassal.
jason
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Thanks again for your support into Ser. Too bad about Greece, but
> apparently Russia tipped off Italy. I guess he doesn't want me getting
> too big for my britches. :-)
Yeah, now what are your plans for the future? I feel better
knowing that Italy didn't profit from his invasion of Austria,
but survival would be an interesting concept for me to
explore at this point :-)
Philippe
Message from Austria to Italy
> With that assumption, what would you like to see.
The obvious answer is something safe for me that will
still be usefull to you; but let's discuss details after the
builds.
Philippe
Message from Austria to France
Hi Erik,
What has happened between you and England?
Is it Andy's doing so he could try to finish me up
in peace?
Regards,
Philippe
Message from Austria to England
> It surprised me because I don't think it was in his best interest, but I think he felt Andy's influence more than my own. :-( He
will have a long ugly fight to get anything from me, though, while instead he could be cleaning the Italian clock.
I will see what I can learn on my side and get back to you.
One thing's for sure, with two builds, you will be ready to
receive him.
> Hm. Well, I'd suggested AT v R, and he wanted to know whether I thought that was preferable to AT v I, and I basically agreed.
It was not a firm commitment but he seemed open to the idea. Keep it in mind.
OK. I won't push for anything at first and just wait to see
what are his goals.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Russia
Thanks for the help. As for Turkey, I don't see anything
special that would have allowed you to go against him
had he opted to stay with Andy? Of course, my initial
request would have been for nought with no russian build.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Germany
Hi Tony,
I'm getting tired of favorising others just so Andy doesn't
get to profit from his betrayal. He's offering peace to me
yet again and I hope it will be the right one this time; but
what do you think my chances are of actually seeing it?
Has he said anything to you?
Philippe
Message from England to France
Erik -
I would have considered the same thing you did & I do not bear any grudge
for it at all.
Let's take a look at some of what we can expect now that the shoe has
dropped:
England: with two builds, will build in the south in a defensive posture.
The battle for French occupation of English centers will be slow and require
a near-complete use of the French forces.
Germany: crumbled, with BER to go to Russia
Russia:
Facing *zero* enemies - unless you include Germany. No doubt is *thrilled*
that England must now turn to face France, leaving most English holdings
vulnerable to Russia, to be taken at some point down the road, significantly
*after* French growth has stalled.
Italy:
Getting crushed in the Balkans. All three home centers and TUN are
vulnerable to France, as he pushes the units he has *east*. Meanwhile he
controls TUN, which is I believe a *necessary center* for France to solo.
Count the 18 yourself - I do not see how you solo without TUN, unless you
occupy WAR, or MOS. Moreover, TUN once held by you is easily defended.
Erik, as I see it you and I are in similar situations: I would benefit
fastest from attacking Scandinavia, and you would benefit fastest - not to
mention cross the stalemate line - by attacking Italy. But instead it
appears we *may* have to lock horns against each other, trying to scratch
out a difficult battle while good opportunities elsewhere dry up.
It is not too late for you to change your mind. I will build an A LVP and F
LON. It will not be an *offensive* build - it will rather be designed to
protect the home turf. You in IRI are perfectly well protected from me.
But if you choose to follow this path - building F BRE - then I will have to
pull back from the RG neighborhood to try to deal with you. I hope you see,
that better opportunites for you lay elsewhere.
If I was Italy, I would be encouraging France to attack England, to keep him
away from me. If I was Russia, I would be encouraging France to attack
England, to keep him away from me. If I was Germany, I would be encouraging
France to attack England, to break up the EF. But if I were *France*, I
would take this opportunity to reach across the stalemate line and stake my
claim to the Italian centers.
What do you think?
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Nice move into Germany. Looks like the I vs F attack didn't come off
> yet, though. I assume A Gas will get convoyed soon enough.
Yes, but to where?
> Any chance of you taking advantage of Russia getting no
> builds this turn in Scandinavia? Looks tasty. :-)
It does. It depends on whether I can get Erik to press in the south. I
would appreciate your help in that regard; I /will/ be able to take the
exposed Scandinavian centers, if I can get Erik out of my hindquarters. You
can let Erik know of my intentions, if you think it will help.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Grr. EF conflict is supposed to happen on *my* terms! Dammit.
It seems to me EF conflict is probably ok with you, and I imagine it is in
your best interest to see me put up a good fight. When the time comes, will
you coordinate a defense with me? I would probably benefit from your
(counter)intelligence, as Erik is starting out with the advantage, and it is
not in your best interest for me to get steamrolled.
What do you make of the fall?
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Well I see you dissuaded Erik from the bounce. Thanks a damned lot. ;-)
Now in the North I cannot face Russia, despite Scandinavia's vulnerability,
which means Russia will clean up, and I think you are about to get crushed
under the heel of an RT.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from Observer to Observer
Press from E to F:
*****
Erik
I would have considered the same thing you did & I do not bear any grudge
for it at all.
Let's take a look at some of what we can expect now that the shoe has
dropped:
..... <snip - way too much to include, but you have the original already>
*****
*very* nice press from Ben. Makes clear to Erik that no grudges are being
borne - yet. Outlines the diplomatic reasons why France attacking England is
bad (there are a few). Then outlines the plan for further EF co-operation -
France knows exactly what England intends to do, and what England wants
France to do (or not do) if co-operation is to continue.
There can be no argument from Erik that he doesn't understand what Ben is
saying or what the consequences will be if he continues with his attack.
Obviously we will see what happens, but I will be very surprised if Erik
pursues the northern attack given the recent results - there are much easier
pickings to be had eastwards.
Alastair
Message from Russia to Italy
Straight up: it was a complete screwup on my part, and one that I could have
avoided several ways, but was too anxious and short on time to figure it out.
Philippe and Jason both told me that Jason was going to take Ser. Philippe
also offered me Vie to spite you. *That* is why I agreed to work against you.
I figured next season you'd be in a fine position to work with me against AT,
and I'd still be up for it.
Problem was, yesterday I sent you a note I shouldn't have that said that you
were going to lose Ser (which I can't tell whether you even noticed). Being
the unfortunately truthful guy that I am, I told Philippe about my gaffe, who
then said, "no big deal, but then I'm going to have Vie support Adr-Tri".
This happened at 3:45pm, and I had to leave for a class that goes until 7:30
PM (an hour or so before the deadline, and after most of you are asleep).
Seeing Philippe's reply I realized I wasn't going to get vie, and just
entered panic moves. Had I thought it through, I might have talked with you
about it (since the sole benefit of not working with you was that I would get
Vie out of it) and you could have pointed that out to me.
So while there was a plan that made sense behind why I did not tap Bud, it's
not the plan you see from the moves.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Austria
(Double checking that this says "Press to A" at the top!)
I was reasonably certain that there would not be IT cooperation. My move to
Gal was more for show than anything. Let me know if you want me to use things
"against" you. I think we can continue to have good AR cooperation if you are
up for it. I'm hoping that after this you're interested in continuing
together (I certainly am). I have some ideas, but let me know what your
leanings are before I start spewing ideas.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
What do I make of the Fall?
I made a huge blunder that I compounded with a minor blunder that really
weakened my overall position. You'll see details when you review the press,
but it had nothing to do with you or the EFG triangle. I'm still cursing
myself for it.
As to EF conflict, I was reasonably certain that would happen. This may be
undermining my credibility with you, but basically I ended up kind of
encouraging him. As you say, it doesn't hurt me to have you and him fighting,
so that was somewhat selfishly motivated. But moreso it was clear that Erik
*really* wanted to attack you, and Tony really wanted me to attack you. I got
messages from both Tony and Erik saying that they wanted me to attack you in
Den, and making it clear they had discussed it (as I think I told you). The
problem was that Erik was so interested that I was reasonably certain that if
I told him I was helping you, then he might have tipped off Tony, in which
case Tony wouldn't have moved Kie, in which case you wouldn't have gotten the
build which (as you pointed out) made Erik's attack ineffective.
So you are likely to find that Erik is just as annoyed with me for misleading
him as anything else. I'd worry about being so frank with you, but I expect
you'll hear much of this from Tony and Erik. FGR is actually kind of a mess
right now. Erik probably truly expected me to support Tony to Den, and BOTH
Erik and I expected Tony to move on Den and not on Hol. So there's tons of
animosity to go around.
I also want to apologize for Nwy-Swe. I realized about 1am that it was
actually counter productive for me (Nwy is better for defending both StP and
Swe, Swe is more threatening to you, but I can't afford to threaten you right
now). I can only say that in the late hours before the deadline I was so
frazzled by the blunder I referred to above that I just copied over the
orders Tony and I had "agreed" to, and then changed the support on Bal. At
the very last minute I thought I should tap Ber because it would be REALLY
ugly if you didn't get Kie and Tony was pissed about it!
As for coordinating defenses, here's my thinking: if I can get Mun and Ber
(which may be difficult) then I am DONE in the north. I will effectively
proxy those units to you, moving things away from you and into the south or
defensive positions in north. We're still in that sort of Mexican stand off
position where either of us could majorly burn the other, but as I keep
stressing, I'm looking simply to put up a defense in the north and seek
better pastures south. If I do well, I'll look to solo through southern
gains. If (as looks much more likely) I am stymied, I'll try to set up a
defensive line and go for a 2-way or 3-way. I would be happy for you to be
one of the other players in a draw.
And as another argument for ongoing ER cooperation, Turkey is looking pretty
strong in the south. He's likely to make Tun before you can, especially if
you and I are fighting. So in looking at keeping a Turkish solo from
happening (not that far fetched a concern at the moment) you'll want to make
sure I have a strong southern line as well.
Those are my thoughts at the moment. Anything from your side?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
You are a gutsy and determined player. I am very impressed with your play.
Really. You have really done everything you could in the face of combined EFR
antagonism. I know it hasn't helped your position at all, and I'm sure it
doesn't help you to know that I sympathize with your position, having lived
through much the same abuse in my last two games, but I wanted to tell you
that I am very impressed with your determination.
That said, for yet another turn we've both pretty much screwed the other one
over. Had I not supported Den-Kie, I would be in probably a worse position in
Scandinavia than I am now with England out of Ska. I completely understand
your choice to try to take Hol and not move to Den. Makes perfect sense. For
myself, I think my moves were the slightly lesser of several evils.
I'm assuming we're at a negotiating standstill for the moment, but let me
know if there's anything you want to talk about, whether it be future moves,
analyzing earlier moves, or just chatting.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
Well, I certainly left you holding the bag with Ben, but on the plus side,
Germany's been pretty well eviscerated. You are in a tighter spot than you'd
hoped, and a bungled situation in the south (that cost me position but has
nothing to do with FGR discussions) did the same for me. Yes Ben is stronger,
but he's out of position, and Italy's still weak, so you are still in an
overall decent spot. I don't know how you'll react to my moves, especially
when they are combined with Tony's (I just had that niggling feeling that I
could not trust him), so I won't talk any real planning with you until I hear
from you how badly I've pissed you off.
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Austria
Hi, Philippe. I believe it is all to little to late. He may be genuine this
time but the juggernaut is on the role.
As I expected all along the Juggernaut is on its way. You and Italy will be
swept aside. .
BUD and GRE will be next to fall. You may get lucky. Surely even Andy must
realise by now that there is no IR, IT, AR or AT. There never was. I havent
concerned myself much with the east following the opening problems
encountered in trying to get an GIA relation off the ground.
Russia ploy is to get EF fighting. RT to sweep west, even maybe towards a 2
way. For now my money is on Russia to solo. Eric (Turkey) is a competent
player so Russia will find it difficult going but for now Russia is in the
driving seat.
Ben has fallen for a short term gain bun unless he and France work as one
Russia will be all over England.
RT will have no problem allowing Italy to take TRI. They will just remove
any Italian or Austrian unit that is there when the time comes. I think the
best AI defence (if one arises) is to try and destory as many units as
possible without worrying about losses.
I think Turkey will build a fleet. In the spring expect boh - vie, gal
support ser - bud.
If I were RT I would use the spring to position myself in ALB (ser - alb,
bul - ser, aeg - bul, smy - age). This ensures that GRE, BUD fall in the
fall. Russia may take the long way around and take BER.
Either way I am afraid that it is to late for AI. Maybe a late AIG might
offer some relief but not for long.
I would opt for bud - gal supported by vie, mun - boh supported by tyr,
ber - sil. Just try and destroy a frontline russian unit. Maybe even get a
shot at war by fall. I think Russia/Turkey will make it to Germany and
Italy.
Message from Russia to Turkey
I think the shuffle should work fine, but I'd like to hear what Austria comes
up with first. If he continues to help us against Italy, it might be worth
our while to throw resources that way and shuffle around later.
So yes, I think we should do it, but I want to keep an open mind for the
moment.
Sound good?
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Russia
Hi Erik. Thanks for the press and compliments. I am just getting around to
replying to 15 of 19 games, most of which were in my favour. I kept C2 till
last ;-) I will broadcast an efr press any minute now. I am just about to
start on it. I didnt however move on DEN (or at least I hope I didnt). I
only went for Holland. I will explain why in the large press.
Tony
Message from Russia to Germany
> I am just getting around to
> replying to 15 of 19 games, most of which were in my favour.
I have to believe that this (playing in lots of games) is the only way to
reduce the anxiety level I get playing this game. I often think that
Diplomacy playing is going to give me ulcers, I get so emotionally distraught
over them. But then I only play one or two games at a time, so maybe that
just magnifies things.
But I just don't have the time to participate in that many games. Real life
and all.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I will keep this short & will try to give a more thorough response later.
In your shoes I would have been encouraging the French attack of E as well -
it worked out well for you. What you want, as I see it, is an unstable west
with your nearest ally being the one who needs you most.
That's me!
So don't worry about ER; right now I hope you agree it is much more useful
to you than GRF, which would mean your nearest neighbors would be a big F
and a dangerous G, neither of whom would *need* you. So we are good, and I
thank you for being straight with me.
I think we are on the same page - still - the best thing for you will be my
stout defense from France. I will certainly help you to BER/MUN, though as
you can see for right now I'm not exactly in a position to *support* you
into MUN. Still, there are other ways I should be able to help.
I am very pleased with ER right now & you mustn't worry yourself about it.
In a way I was glad to see the French attack - it means I get to build
without having to step on anyone's toes.
Ben
Message from Austria to Germany
Tony,
Just in case I wasn't clear, Andy's hold on Jason was so strong for
a while that I actually spend most of my time insuring there would
be an RT instead of an IRT. I failed at first, but I was bound to get
it going sooner or later. Now, I doubt my effort will help me survive
the Juggernaut, but there might still be hope. One thing's for sure, if
an RT isn't enough to get Andy off my back, then I will spend what
time I have left attacking him just for the fun of it.
So, if you have any influence left over Andy, please use it to stop
this madness,
Philippe.
P.-S. I heard Andy's a cutthroat player, but to see him lie and stab
me time after time with nothing to show for it is a bit much for me.
As Austria, I expect getting stab by Italy, but he has surpassed all
my expectations on that front and I wonder what's driving him to
such extreme. If you have any insight into his behavior, it would
really help me. Obviously, favorising an RT is a dead end strategy
for Austria and if I survive it, knowing what can be done to keep
Andy on board would help me greatly.
Message from Germany to Russia
> I have to believe that this (playing in lots of games) is the only way to
reduce the anxiety level I get playing this game.>
It has its downside. Accidently revealling your identity in gunboat games,
not giving the attention the game demands. The revealing of passwords, wrong
press to the wrong game or powers. Bad spelling and gramma because you are
constantly busy with all games at once. A conveyor belt of press and moves
(and gm-ing). The one major flaw is that some games demand more attention
than others. This one hasnt received the attention it deserved from me. It's
only in the last year (fall move) that I actually gave the game the
attention it deserved. But where there is life there is play.
The up-side is indeed that anxiety is ZERO and experience is gained in rapid
tempo. I enjoy every game and always have a good nights sleep and never
worry. I am always bewildered at how the cooky sometimes crumbles.
>I often think that Diplomacy playing is going to give me ulcers>
I know the feeling from the early days of diplomacy when I just started up
>I get so emotionally distraught over them.>
Yup, I can associate myself with that too, but once again way way back.
>But then I only play one or two games at a time, so maybe that just
magnifies things.>
I have played 39 games at once and I never had it so easy so maybe more
games equals less anxiety. It suddenly dawns on you that its just a game and
nothing is really personal. So I just enjoy every one of them. Maybe that 2
games indeed up the anxiety level where as the results in 20+ games always
cancel each other out. The positive and negative results always seem to
cancel each other out.
>But I just don't have the time to participate in that many games. Real life
and all.>
80% of my games are no press, it's just a matter of receiving press, looking
at the map and sending in your moves. The experience gained makes it all
worth while. In general though I do a lot better in press games.
Tony
Message from Germany to England, France, and Russia
First off; Congratulations to Ben on his two builds, I would have preferred
they came from RG rather than just G.
Secondly, well done Eric (Russia).
Thirdly; it is not to late for the three of you to surrender to me. I will
be leniant and forgive you your trespasses against me, however continue down
this foolish path and none of you will survive to see 1905.
Analysis:
Observation:
1 - Doesnt that fleet in IRI look a lot like the army we saw in s1901m in
PIE ;-)
2- I was hoping on 4 sc's. Having only two left is still 50% positive news
Facts as I saw them, in message to observers before fall moves
1 - Russian proposal never taken seriously (expect attack on BER)
2 - Move to BOH expected
3 - Juggernaut to show through
4 - attack on Greece expected
Assumptions in message to observers
1 - Russia wouldnt follow through on support of DEN - KIE
2 - Ben would opt for DEN and NWY with my blessing
3 - EG will be screwed by FR (france wont move on iri)
4 - EFR to continue attack on G
All 4 wrong, I must stick to facts in the future ;-)
Analysis to date:
Russia hoping for EF conflict to allow juggernaut to take over
Germany/Italy. Builds gained to be deployed in north(STP) and warsaw area.
What does surprise me (but we all live and hopefully learn) is the
following.
It was always apparent that England would receive two builds. I was willing
to let him keep Denmark and hoped that he would push for Norway whilst I
retook Holland and that we jointly protected Berlin. That would have left me
the 4 sc's I expected. It also meant tha Ben had an escape and wouldnt be
caught up between RF once I am gone. It also meant that at least in the
north we could take on the juggernaut which I have been preaching all along.
I didnt expect Russia to support Ben, two english builds isnt in Russia's
interest (unless they are used against france).
We know the EF alliance has been stable over the last few years. France
managed to talk his way out of the situation in Italy. I am sure he will
talk his way out of the situation in IRI. Now and then his front line units
seem to have a wil of their own. Italy and I am sure England accept this and
will excuse it.
The talks during the fall involved EG working together and EFR working
together. I just had to keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best. I did
all the diploming, false messaging etc. that I could think of to convince
Ben that in the long run he is doomned unless he teams up with me or at
least with France.
Would France have moved to IRI if he knew that Russia was supporting England
into Denmark. My money says he wouldnt have. So maybe my analysis to date as
mentioned above is true. So was I the only one stabbed? indirectly I dont
think so. Ben and Erik (france) have been set up nicely by Eric(Russia).
Ben, do you really want to be pushed into a war with France and let the
juggernaut profit. Visit the USSR before the USSR visits you. Russia would
like nothing more than you and France to slog it out until RT get into place
to "HELP" you and France. Russia via the north and Turkey via the south.
So which two units do I disband and whos puppet do I become until I wipe you
all out in 1905.
I am sure EF can sort out IRI.
A fleet build in BRE allows for SPA - WES, MAR - GOL, IRI - MAO. In the fall
you get MAO - NAF. BY spring France is in TUN. Block one against the
JUGGERNAUT.
England builds two fleets, one in EDI and LON. I keep BER and MUN. EFG can
hold MUN/BER long enough for Ben to take NWY in the fall. Block two against
the JUGGERNAUT.
Dont be surprised to see RT get Italy to take TRI whilst they attack and
take GRE and BUD.
No matter if it's an austrian or italian unit in TRI it will be removed once
RT meet up there.
The short term Italian gain will vanish like snow in the sun.
Thats how I see Bens gains. Very temporary indeed.
Russia has saved his northern frontier for now and lost nothing and even
gained false friendship. He will push the RF versus England but in reality
it will be an EF battle whilst RT inch their way forward. No doubt he will
want at least an army build in LVP but he will prefer a fleet build instead.
No doubt he will ask/insist on a fleet in LVP/LON.
This is Russia's crucial year. He needs a build this year to close the
gaping whole in his defence up north. It's the last window of opportunity
for England/France.
If Russia can keep Bens friendship just one more year the build in STP will
be a fact and the long hot showers between them will be over.
I hope the western alliance which we have hidden well up until now springs
its trap on Russia.
Erik, I am sure you will offer me a better deal as a Russian puppet.
Tony
Message from Germany to Austria
Hi philippe. I think it went badly wrong in the spring of 1901. I dont think
he ever got over your insistence on bouncing TRI, That is what probably
drove him to Turkey.
I for one had to give up on any GIA. It just wasnt there. Early alliances
are crucial. I made the big mistake of not believing and trusting EF in the
western alliance arena. I chickened out and I have paid dearly since. I too
am trying to warn EF of the RT juggernaut threat and that Russia is pushing
EF into war. I think that I scared them that much that they just dont
believe me anymore. The boy crying wolf.
As for Andy I know nothing about him. I never pay attention to JDPR's or
reputations. I play the board as is. I barecly recognise people who I have
played against in previous games. They usually point out that we know each
other. It just never registrates with me. I must be doing something right
else I wouldnt be ranked 340. But no doubt after the updates that may vary
for better or for worst. I dont keep track.
But all in all I know it takes all types to play diplomacy but I have found
it to be the best strategy that fits me. I believe you and Italy blew it in
the spring of 1901. All moves after that showed a clear anti austrian
tendancy.
I will try a last ditch AIG press soon to see if I can help out and help
myself at the same time. For now I am reasoning that Italy will attack TRI
edged to do so by RT. Whilst RT attack Greece and BUD and cut VIE support.
I will see what I can do.
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> Well I see you dissuaded Erik from the bounce. Thanks a damned lot. ;-)
Sorry.
> Now in the North I cannot face Russia, despite Scandinavia's vulnerability,
> which means Russia will clean up, and I think you are about to get crushed
> under the heel of an RT.
Dont face Russia, he is still a ways from you....build fleets in Liverpool
and London and shut down the French.
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> > Well I see you dissuaded Erik from the bounce. Thanks a
> damned lot. ;-)
>
> Sorry.
You sir are a capital (Capitol?) jerk. After all the effort I put into
trying to get France to attack *you*, you persuaded him to attack *me*. I
take back my offer to buy you a beer, and I renounce all interest in the
Pitkissers.
At some point I would like to work with you to beat Erik like a drum. But
you need to get your affairs straight in the east, as far as I can tell.
> > Now in the North I cannot face Russia, despite
> Scandinavia's vulnerability,
> > which means Russia will clean up, and I think you are about
> to get crushed
> > under the heel of an RT.
>
> Dont face Russia, he is still a ways from you....build fleets
> in Liverpool
> and London and shut down the French.
No army for defense of the homeland? If I don't build it now I may never
get the chance. . .
Be well - I was just kidding about IRI. Good job.
Ben
Message from Italy to Turkey
> Andy, your policy toward me for the last several years has been one of
> containment.
This I disagree with. I havent told you where you could or couldnt go. And
I have never invaded any of the territory that borders you.
You want me to accept a situation where a 6 center Italy
> and a 7 center Russia face a 4 center Turkey. That seems to me to be a
> recipe for disaster.
I cant argue with you logic here. Its sound.
But I was going to give you GRE.
> I agree Russia is a threat, but as a 4 center power, I have no way of
> moving on him, and I'm not sure why you would think I could. I'm willing
> to work with you to our mutual advantage, but that can't mean me as your
> vassal.
Im not sure what gave you the idea that I want you a my vassel. I dont.
Russia is going to grow like gangbusters. And you are the only person in
ANY kind of position to slow him down at all.
Andy
Message from Italy to Austria
>
> > With that assumption, what would you like to see.
>
> The obvious answer is something safe for me that will
> still be usefull to you; but let's discuss details after the
> builds.
>
No problem
Message from Russia to Russia
A response for Tony that I'm not willing to send in game:
> This is Russia's crucial year. He needs a build this year to close the
> gaping whole in his defence up north. It's the last window of opportunity
> for England/France.
Overall a very good analysis (or at least, really similar to mine, which may
not be the same thing). I'm struck that my stupidity in mis-sending that
messageto Andy was only outweighed by the stupidity of admitting it to
Philippe and Jason. Had I not done that (and had Philippe really vacated
Vie), I think you would have *truly* been impressed! Though it does mean that
the move to Boh which you expected was not what I had truly planned on.
Live and learn. Hopefully I'll do *at least* one of the two in this game. :)
Overall, I'd say things in the north went about as well as could be hoped
for. Better, actually, in that I honestly had no expectation that you would
attack Hol, and was seriously considering supporting Kie-Den. I decided on
Den-Kie because if I have to trust one of Ben or you, Ben seems the better
bet. That said, I will not be at all surprised to see EF work me over quickly
and efficiently, with or without your prodding.
--- Eric
Message from Turkey to England
I assume A Gas will be convoyed to Tus after moving to Spa. Then again,
Spa - Mao will convoy it to Lvp. At least you have builds to counter that.
I'll see what I can do with Russia. He's interested in AI right now, so
that should help you.
jason
Message from Turkey to Russia
We can delay the shuffle, that's fine. Fall matters more than Spring,
anyway.
jason
Message from Turkey to Italy
>>Andy, your policy toward me for the last several years has been one of
>>> containment.
> This I disagree with. I havent told you where you could or couldnt go. And
> I have never invaded any of the territory that borders you.
Well, that's somewhat disingenuous, isn't it? You kept me from moving
west, while I had few avenues for advance in the north. I agreed before
you didn't attack me, but you didn't give me many options, either.
>> You want me to accept a situation where a 6 center Italy
>> and a 7 center Russia face a 4 center Turkey. That seems to me to be a
>> recipe for disaster.
> I cant argue with you logic here. Its sound.
>
> But I was going to give you GRE.
That may very well be the case, but I'm sure you've heard plenty of
promises in your time that didn't work out for one reason or another.
>>> I agree Russia is a threat, but as a 4 center power, I have no way of
>>> moving on him, and I'm not sure why you would think I could. I'm willing
>>> to work with you to our mutual advantage, but that can't mean me as your
>>> vassal.
>
>
> Im not sure what gave you the idea that I want you a my vassel. I dont.
I simply meant that as a 6 center power and me as a 4 center power, it
wasn't exactly a matchup of equals.
> Russia is going to grow like gangbusters. And you are the only person in
> ANY kind of position to slow him down at all.
I agree he will, and that's dangerous.
How about this: I'll build F Smy, since that's the only thing that won't
make Russia paranoid (I thought about F Con, but he'd ask lots of
questions). I understand you won't like that, but I need to keep Russia
quiescent. Then, in the Spring, I'll support Bul to Rum with Ser and
Bla. That will cut Russia off at the knees.
I won't take Gre, giving you options against France. I can also move Aeg
to Con to use it in Bla against Sev. That should give us enough leverage.
jason
Message from Turkey to Turkey
Hmm, it's been far too long since my last soliloquy.
A messy game gets messier. Are IR conspiring against Turkey? Why did
England claim France was attacking Italy? Will France still attack
Italy? Ahh, to be on the other side of the Yahoo group.
Italy is right about Russia - with Germany dead, Russia gets Ber and Bud
and Vie, giving him 10 centers and a commanding lead. I can maybe be at
6 or 7 heading west (Gre and Rum, if Russia really will give it to me).
That assumes France doesn't eat Italy first. If England can hit him
high, and I hit him low, he can go from 7 to 4 very quickly.
Risky? Probably, but it's my best shot of breaking out of the corner in
a meaningful way.
jason
Message from Turkey to Austria
I'm a big fan of survival, myself!
I suspect you'll be Russia's target quite soon, so your survival might
hinge on keeping him at bay. We started this game working against him,
and it might be a good idea to try that again before he gets too big for
the two of us. With Germany gone, so is your biggest benefactor, and
Russia looks to be all around you.
jason
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Office network seems to have lost my response from a few hours ago. My
guess is, you'll get it mid-morning tomorrow. It went pretty much like
this:
> > Well I see you dissuaded Erik from the bounce. Thanks a damned lot.
;-)
>
> Sorry.
Jerk. I renounce my interest in the Pitkissers and I am not buying you a
beer. Hell with you! Some nerve, getting Erik to go after me, while I was
trying to get him to go after you!
> > Now in the North I cannot face Russia, despite Scandinavia's
vulnerability,
> > which means Russia will clean up, and I think you are about to get
crushed
> > under the heel of an RT.
>
> Dont face Russia, he is still a ways from you....build fleets in Liverpool
> and London and shut down the French.
You don't think I should build an army to defend the homeland? I'm worried
if I don't build it now, I won't get a chance.
Please get your stuff straight in the East, so you and I can go beat Erik
like a drum.
Thank you.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
Without going into all the detail I was interested in Tony's note & it
certainly explains something to me, namely, why would you attack me if you
thought I was getting two builds. Answer, you didn't think I was getting
two builds. Russia played you for the bad guy, while he revs up his RT and
waits for my exposed back.
Well, that realization gave me some hope for our future, and makes me think
maybe I will not see a F BRE - why would you give him what he wants, when
he's played you like a drum?
But time will tell, on this one.
Ben
Message from England to England
Yes, the drum motif was for the benefit of you, the gallery.
The move to IRI was not a terrible surprise nor was the Russian support. I
was thinking my chances were slightly better with R then with G but there
was not much of a difference. I am pleased to be building twice and I do
not think Eric has much of a reason to rush in right now, though perhaps he
will. He can take the dots, but doesn't he want me keeping the lid on
Erik? We will see.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
>
> Andy -
> Office network seems to have lost my response from a few hours ago. My
> guess is, you'll get it mid-morning tomorrow. It went pretty much like
> this:
>
> > > Well I see you dissuaded Erik from the bounce. Thanks a damned lot.
> ;-)
> >
> > Sorry.
> Jerk. I renounce my interest in the Pitkissers and I am not buying you a
> beer. Hell with you! Some nerve, getting Erik to go after me, while I was
> trying to get him to go after you!
Actually....all I did was tell him that I catagorically didnt want a
bounce in WES.
Im as surprised as your are.
> > > Now in the North I cannot face Russia, despite Scandinavia's
> vulnerability,
> > > which means Russia will clean up, and I think you are about to get
> crushed
> > > under the heel of an RT.
> >
> > Dont face Russia, he is still a ways from you....build fleets in Liverpool
> > and London and shut down the French.
> You don't think I should build an army to defend the homeland? I'm worried
> if I don't build it now, I won't get a chance.
I dont think you can afford to, you need as many fleets as will allow
right now, to protect all the ways to your island.
> Please get your stuff straight in the East, so you and I can go beat Erik
> like a drum.
Im working on it, but the Turk isnt being helpful at all.
take care
Andy
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
Thinking about my last message to you, I realized that I failed to include
the magic decoder ring. That is, I was so vague about what I was getting at
that I'm not sure I actually said anything.
Up until this point your cooperation with R and RT has bordered on puppetting
-- as you've explained, you've been looking to slow down Andy in order to
allow you some chance to breathe down the line, but haven't been worried
about your short term prospects.
Now there is an obvious threat to you from RT cooperation. While that is one
way I could go, I was very serious when I commented that there is lots of
value to me in ongoing AR cooperation, both positionally because of your size
(not to mention some personality differences between you and Jason). You
noted that as you worked against Andy, you hope I wouldn't take advantage of
you. So far I have not, and I don't want to start now. The problem is that
there is only so much we can (or need to) continue to do against Andy, given
that Jason is now in a position to force him out of the Balkans next year.
That means that AR cooperation would boil down to cooperation against T as
well as I. So the question is (or was supposed to be), are you interested in
cooperating in the Balkans? To me gathering Balkan centers seems to be your
most likely mechanism to secure you a good position than sitting still or
pressing against me (though obviously I'm a biased observer here), since
Jason has to move north, whereas I don't need to move south to establish my
position. So it seems a good fit for both of us.
Anyway, I hope this clarifies the crypticness of my last message somewhat.
Let me know what you think.
--- Eric
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Reading between the lines of my last press from T, I am still confident he
believes there is an RT.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
>
> Andy -
> Reading between the lines of my last press from T, I am still confident he
> believes there is an RT.
Yeah...he gave me a lame ass line about building a fleet in Smyrna so that
the Russian doesnt get suspicious and that he will leave Greece
alone......
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> Yeah...he gave me a lame ass line about building a fleet in
> Smyrna so that
> the Russian doesnt get suspicious and that he will leave Greece
> alone......
When I told you I'd write him about leaving you alone, what I suggested
specifically was AT v R. He told me there wasn't much of an A left anymore,
which is absurd, unless in his mind the red dots are white already. . .
Eric I think is quite the charmer. Anyway, here we go.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> > Yeah...he gave me a lame ass line about building a fleet in
> > Smyrna so that
> > the Russian doesnt get suspicious and that he will leave Greece
> > alone......
> When I told you I'd write him about leaving you alone, what I suggested
> specifically was AT v R. He told me there wasn't much of an A left anymore,
> which is absurd, unless in his mind the red dots are white already. . .
Im leaving the Austrian alone.....entirely, unless he attacks me.
> Eric I think is quite the charmer. Anyway, here we go.
>
He is.
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
I am pretty confident of two things right now:
1. RT is still on
2. Italy has no interest in fighting you.
I understand you might be reluctant to believe #2. But it will be important
to remember, if I'm right about #1.
No need to do anything immediately - I just wanted you to have this in the
back of your mind as you are studying your correspondence.
Ben
Message from Germany to Germany
Tough one, I will opt to try and help out AI so I will be removing HEL/RUH.
That does coincidently also fit into the plan I put before EF. It will be
interesting to see if Ben sticks with Russia.
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
I don't know that we'll need to delay. I just wanted to keep our eyes and
ears open to see what other options there might be. So far I haven't thought
of or heard anything good. If we don't, we can go ahead with the swap.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to Italy
Loving Observers....I am writing to you before I respond to the Russian.
Because he is so full of shit his eyes are a nice carmel color.
He has been jerking me off since the game began, and I wouldnt be
surprised at all if he is the person that has organized the entire east
against me. He continues to tell me how he keeps screwing up but he doesnt
have an enemy and is the biggest power on the board.
Me thinks thou dost protest too much.
Then there is the Turk....who keeps treating me like I am an idiot.....
I mean....I was born at night, but not last night.....
Now....I will be wayyyyyyy beyond stunned if he does ANYTHING he has
claimed, but I am going to go along with him, because I dont have any
choice...arguing with him wont change anything about the situation, but it
will make him less talkative, which I dont want.
Germany is toast....Austria thinks he is toast.
this is going to get intrsting
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric,
> Straight up: it was a complete screwup on my part, and one that I could have
> avoided several ways, but was too anxious and short on time to figure it out.
Ok...I can accept that. But you are a better player than that.
> Philippe and Jason both told me that Jason was going to take Ser. Philippe
> also offered me Vie to spite you. *That* is why I agreed to work against you.
> I figured next season you'd be in a fine position to work with me against AT,
> and I'd still be up for it.
So...what are you up for.
> Problem was, yesterday I sent you a note I shouldn't have that said that you
> were going to lose Ser (which I can't tell whether you even noticed).
I didnt even read it. I never do, If we were playing FtF I would have
never gotten the info, so I just discarded it as if it didnt exist.
Being
> the unfortunately truthful guy that I am, I told Philippe about my gaffe, who
> then said, "no big deal, but then I'm going to have Vie support Adr-Tri".
> This happened at 3:45pm, and I had to leave for a class that goes until 7:30
> PM (an hour or so before the deadline, and after most of you are asleep).
> Seeing Philippe's reply I realized I wasn't going to get vie, and just
> entered panic moves. Had I thought it through, I might have talked with you
> about it (since the sole benefit of not working with you was that I would get
> Vie out of it) and you could have pointed that out to me.
Why wouldnt you revert to what the original (ie...pre offer of Vienna) and
tapped Budapest....
Oh...and if you had moved like I suggested on the Turk you would be
getting 2 Turkish dots this year......but you dont seem to want to fight
him.
> So while there was a plan that made sense behind why I did not tap Bud, it's
> not the plan you see from the moves.
>
Yeah.....you keep getting better offers than a competent, smart and
reliable ally....
Dont know what to do about that, I cant make myself more clueless than I
am.
Message from France to England
Don't worry. No invasion planned.
It was a last minute decision. I needed to hang onto Holland, and to do so
required promising to move to Iri. I figured doing so would give me a
little more credibility with Germany down the road and give me a chance to
manipulate him a bit. I would have told you, but I didn't want you pulling
units back unnecessarily.
Clearly, with your two builds and without any other French units in the
area, I do not have a serious attack planned on your homeland. I hope you
will keep this in mind when you choose your builds.
More after the adjustments.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
Well, I can't say I'm pleased, but at least I got Holland, and I suppose
I'll be able to patch things up with Ben. Why didn't you give me some
notice about your plans?
Erik
England: BUILD Fleet Liverpool
England: BUILD Fleet London
France: BUILD Fleet Marseilles
Germany: REMOVE Fleet Helgoland Bight
Germany: REMOVE Army Munich
Italy: BUILD Fleet Naples
Turkey: BUILD Fleet Smyrna
Centers
Austria: 3
England: 5
France: 7
Germany: 2
Italy: 5
Russia: 7
Turkey: 5
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