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Message from Germany to England
Well Ben it's time for drastic meassures and weird and bizzar moves.
I dont need comformation but here is one move I WILL BE DOING.
i WILL BE PUSHING den - swe.
I leave it up to you to decide if you cut support from NWY and support me into SWE allowing us to pick up NWY in the fall. If on the other hand you decide to use this information and support yourself into NWY is up to you.
I am even a little tempted to push for PRU & SIL just to have some sort of revenge on the Russian and at the same time allowing France to take MUN & KIE. Rather a french solo that a draw excluding me.
So it's up to you. I dont need a reply to this press but DEN - SWE has been ordered.
Message from Germany to Germany
Hmmmmm the anti tripple alliance from s01 is still causing headaches. I cant blame Russia. I too would be suggesting SKA take Denmark.
The french build in MAR was interesting but a safe investment for the future once he picks up MUN and HOL.
France is firmly in the saddle now. There is not much I can do at this moment. It will be interesting to see what Russia has to say. My last ray of hope is that Ben sees the French danger and decides on the northern route.
Message from Turkey to Italy
I know we had discussed F Ank, but I'm afraid that after looking at the
situation, I couldn't afford to completely turn my back to you. It
wasn't an easy choice, but I felt I needed balance.
jason
Message from Italy to Turkey
> I know we had discussed F Ank, but I'm afraid that after looking at the
> situation, I couldn't afford to completely turn my back to you. It
> wasn't an easy choice, but I felt I needed balance.
Jason,
It looks like you made a deal with the Russian to come attack me.
You will see from the French builds that I am currently in check.
He has lied to you every turn, Im not quite sure what it would take for
him to convince you that I was the threat.
I just left the AEG open for an entire year when I could have gone there.
Help me out here, how is this in ANY way balancing....
Andy
Message from Italy to England and France
Erik....
Help me out here....
Explain the builds. I want to hear it, in your words.
Message from Italy to Austria
Philippe,
Well...I owe you an apology.
You have nothing to fear from me in the short to medium term.
I have much bigger problems.
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric, Im not sure what you said to the Turk to scare him, but I commend
you.
Message from Turkey to Italy
I don't think one fleet is any cause for concern. I appreciate the fact
that you stayed out of Aeg, and I'm not looking to take you on right
now. I'm much more interested in the Austrian.
But between you yelling about the Russian and him yelling about you, I
dare say both of you are smelling blood in my direction. I just want to
make sure that neither of you gets too tempted to cherry pick empty centers.
I know there's a decent change that A Sev will head for Arm, but
unfortunately building in Ank leaves my back wide open for you. Smy
doesn't threaten you, but it does give me a mild bit of cover.
jason
Message from Italy to Turkey
> I don't think one fleet is any cause for concern. I appreciate the fact
> that you stayed out of Aeg, and I'm not looking to take you on right
> now. I'm much more interested in the Austrian.
With a locked enemy in Austria, and France building F MAR..I think I am in
more than a bit of a jam.
> But between you yelling about the Russian and him yelling about you, I
> dare say both of you are smelling blood in my direction. I just want to
> make sure that neither of you gets too tempted to cherry pick empty centers.
I have never been in a position to cherry pick anything, he has lied to
you every turn.
Why the suspicion.
> I know there's a decent change that A Sev will head for Arm, but
> unfortunately building in Ank leaves my back wide open for you. Smy
> doesn't threaten you, but it does give me a mild bit of cover.
And what exactly would I do now that I wouldnt have done when you had one
less unit to defend with.
Andy
Message from Austria to Turkey
Hi Jason,
So, what should I expect from you now?
Philippe
Message from France to England and Italy
> Erik....
>
> Help me out here....
>
> Explain the builds. I want to hear it, in your words.
Andy:
I'll be happy to explain the builds, but not in my words. Instead, I'll
use the words of a fictional, hyperbolized 18th-century pirate.
Arrrr, 'twas a hard bargain the yellow-bellied English dog struck with me
and me mateys -- no fleets in Brest, he tells me, lest I should wish to
see the Armada strike out across the channel in search of French blood.
So here's what I'll do, I tells myself, I'll build me a fleet of stout
sail and sturdy cannon in the drydocks of Marseilles, and keep her there
as a reminder to me Italian friends and neighbors that the French still
keep a keen eye on their southern shores. And there she shall stay, until
such time that she is called out to sea by salty Italian brigands or a
battle up north for which I am ill-prepared.
Listen, last I checked, you just wanted me to make good with England and
keep plugging away at your nemesis, Tony. We never made any agreement
about building / not building in Mar, so I didn't think it necessary to
keep you informed of 11th-hour horse trading. In any case, it's clearly no
help to me against you except in defense, so as long as you keep your
fleets on your side of the Med, you don't need to worry about it. Right?
Erik
Message from Italy to England and France
>
> I'll be happy to explain the builds, but not in my words. Instead, I'll
> use the words of a fictional, hyperbolized 18th-century pirate.
Erik...let me paraphrase my interpretation of your response to me.....
"Tough shit, I dont trust you at all"
Thats ok....and with our history its not all that surprising.
I just want to make sure that we both understand how I feel about this.
Message from France to Italy
>
> "Tough shit, I dont trust you at all"
>
> Thats ok....and with our history its not all that surprising.
>
> I just want to make sure that we both understand how I feel about this.
Andy:
No, my response paraphrased was, "You're being so overly concerned about
this, I can't help but make light of it by speaking like a pirate." If I
were really after you, I would have convinced Ben to let me build F Bre,
still built F Mar, and sent everything after you. The real truth is that
while A Par is useful against Germany, A Bre would have been kind of far
away to do any good, and A Mar would have been just as offensive to you.
France always does better with a healthy navy, and right now, Marseilles
is an easier build politically than Brest. And while I actually *do* trust
you somewhat, it's always easier to trust a neighbor if there's a little
security around to enforce the trust, you know what I mean?
I know I walked into Piedmont the first turn of the game, but since then,
I've been nothing but accomodating to you. Give me a little credit, will
you? You want Tony dead? Then provide a little more help than the
occassional two-line e-mails that complain about this or that build. If I
could trade all the ellipses you include in your press for armies, I'd
have overrun Berlin by this point, but since I can't, and you're not
willing to provide any other resources to help England and I in our fight,
you'll just have to trust my decisions and hope that we can chip away at
the German defenses in the long run.
Erik
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
I'm really pressed for time today, but wanted to get off a message.
I know you'll see A War as threatening. I put that there because I expected
Turkey to build F Ank, and then an AT to form, and I wanted defense for Gal.
That didn't happen, so now War is looking threatening. The reason I asked if
you are willing to take Nth is that I thought I might need to build defensive
in the south. We can still talk about Swe-Ska, then in Fall Ska S Den-Nth. I
realize that's not guarantee of success if Ben defends Nth with Lon, but it
at least forces the disband of Ska.
Again, I'm in a rush and unavailable much of the day, but wanted to check in.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
Jury duty, gotta run, so I'm speed typing at this point.
I know we didn't get to touch base re: no StP build, but I trust me being
"neutral" is as good for you as being actively RG. In fact, it should tie up
Ben less worrying about me. Clearly the only option at the moment is taking
out Tony quickly, but that's still according to plan.
I'll talk more when I've got more than 10 seconds to write. Hope all is well.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
Looks good! You will be at least in Ser by Fall, and with just a touch of
luck, you'll get Ser and Gre.
I'll get back to you later. I'm on Jury Duty today, so may not have net
access until tonight or tomorrow.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
:)
I appreciate the compliment. I assume the builds make it unlikely that he's
going to support you to Ser, so I'm not expecting to tap Bud in the Spring.
But there's still lots of room for RI cooperation.
BTW, I've got jury duty today, so don't know when I'll be able to get back to
my computer before late night. I don't think they have wireless in the
courtroom yet!
--- Eric
Message from Italy to France
Erik
> No, my response paraphrased was, "You're being so overly concerned about
> this, I can't help but make light of it by speaking like a pirate." If I
> were really after you, I would have convinced Ben to let me build F Bre,
> still built F Mar, and sent everything after you. The real truth is that
> while A Par is useful against Germany, A Bre would have been kind of far
> away to do any good, and A Mar would have been just as offensive to you.
You are correct here.....it would have been more offensive...good point.
> France always does better with a healthy navy, and right now, Marseilles
> is an easier build politically than Brest. And while I actually *do* trust
> you somewhat, it's always easier to trust a neighbor if there's a little
> security around to enforce the trust, you know what I mean?
Absolutely
> I know I walked into Piedmont the first turn of the game, but since then,
> I've been nothing but accomodating to you. Give me a little credit, will
> you? You want Tony dead?
Yes...and I should you are correct.
Then provide a little more help than the
> occassional two-line e-mails that complain about this or that build. If I
> could trade all the ellipses you include in your press for armies, I'd
> have overrun Berlin by this point, but since I can't, and you're not
> willing to provide any other resources to help England and I in our fight,
> you'll just have to trust my decisions and hope that we can chip away at
> the German defenses in the long run.
Well...I think I will be providing you more in the future.
Andy
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
Sorry not to have warned you about the two army builds. Part of the reason
was that I was undecided on the second build until late, late in the turn.
I went on faith that you still prefer the tactic that we get Jason trusting
me, and that you can use that to press Andy. With the Italian build in Mar, I
think your position is looking much stronger. And while I did build in War,
that is not aimed at you.
So far I've only heard a brief note from Andy expressing his disappointment
with Jason's build. He could approach you for an AI vs. RT deal, or he could
approach me for an RI vs. AT deal. Actually, he's good enough that he'll
probably do both. But he's going to have difficulty pulling back from you. If
you think he's going to continue to attack you, then I'm willing to send a
unit to help you defend (something like Gal-Boh-Tyl). I understand that
Austria at 4 in 1903 looks bleak statistically, but I still see AR as a good
match for us, and I think you are in better shape now than at any point since
S1901.
I'm likely to be unavailable the rest of the day (Jury Duty), but let's keep
talking.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
As promised, StP is clear.
I was looking over the board, and with France looking to make gains quickly,
I was thinking that it might make sense to try to get you two builds this
season rather than you one and me one. I'm thinking that after you take Den
(and to be optimistic, let's assume that's successful), I should support you
to Kie (that is, Den-Kie, Nth-Den, Lon-Nth/Eng/whatever makes sense to you).
If France gets much bigger then there's not going to be anything we can do to
slow him down. While arguably you can say the same thing about me, I'm much
less of a threat to you.
Anyway, this is my first checkin. No doubt Tony's offers to support you to
Swe (no, for real this time!) will come rolling in shortly. I hope my build
made it clear I am committed to ER cooperation for considerable time into the
future.
Gotta run -- Jury Duty is likely to keep me off line all day. Talk to you
when I can.
--- Eric
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
I would tell you if I thought he wanted to attack you - why wouldn't I -
right now I think he didn't know what else to do with the build. I could be
wrong & I'm not asking you to do anything particular, just sharing my 2c.
Probably because of your history, you scare the crap out of him.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> I'll be happy to explain the builds, but not in my words.
> Instead, I'll
> use the words of a fictional, hyperbolized 18th-century pirate.
:->
Gave me a good laugh.
As I begin to think about the spring - will you be available to support me
into HOL?
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> As promised, StP is clear.
Thank you.
> I was looking over the board, and with France looking to make
> gains quickly, I was thinking that it might make sense to try
> to get you two builds this season rather than you one and me
> one.
Sounds good to me!
> I'm thinking that after you take Den (and to be optimistic,
> let's assume that's successful), I should support you
> to Kie (that is, Den-Kie, Nth-Den, Lon-Nth/Eng/whatever makes
> sense to you).
Sounds good. If I fail to capture DEN in the spring, in the fall would you
be willing to support me in? Not sure how long I can go without building. .
.
> If France gets much bigger then there's not going to be
> anything we can do to
> slow him down. While arguably you can say the same thing
> about me, I'm much less of a threat to you.
Yes, yes, echoes of the raison d'etre for the ER.
> Anyway, this is my first checkin. No doubt Tony's offers to
> support you to
> Swe (no, for real this time!) will come rolling in shortly. I
> hope my build
> made it clear I am committed to ER cooperation for
> considerable time into the future.
Yes, we are on the same page. Tony is swearing he will order DEN - SWE,
which means either (a) he will, or possibly (b) he won't.
> Gotta run -- Jury Duty is likely to keep me off line all day.
> Talk to you when I can.
Ok - we have plenty of time.
Ben
Message from France to England
> Gave me a good laugh.
Well, games are supposed to be fun, after all.
> As I begin to think about the spring - will you be available to support
> me
> into HOL?
>
Absolutely. I've been going back and forth with Russia a little bit, and
I'm very pleased to see that he chose not to build F StP (nc). I honestly
haven't had a chance to look at the map, but I am willing to get you into
Holland, especially now that I've secured Belgium.
I think I've calmed Andy down. Either that or he's just playing nice and
planning an attack.
I'll look at the map and get back to you with some plans later. We need to
talk about Russia, too, because while he may be helpful in taking out
Germany, we don't want to push him past the tipping point of growth. I've
been trying to bring this up with Turkey and Austria, too, but they're not
very good partners, in my experience.
Erik
Message from Italy to Russia
> I appreciate the compliment. I assume the builds make it
unlikely that he's
> going to support you to Ser, so I'm not expecting to tap Bud in the Spring.
> But there's still lots of room for RI cooperation.
Actually...yes I still need you to tap BUD, he says he is still supporting
me there, so please go forward with that.
> BTW, I've got jury duty today, so don't know when I'll be able to get back to
> my computer before late night. I don't think they have wireless in the
> courtroom yet!
Im sure they dont....Im surprised they let you bring your computer in
Message from Observer to Observer
The current power rankings:
S1903M
11/19/2003
1. Russia - 7
2. France - 6
--------------
3. Turkey - 4
4. Italy - 5
5. England - 3
6. Germany - 5
7. Austria - 4
The previous power rankings:
S1901M
10/08/2003
1. England - 3
2. France - 3
3. Austria - 3
4. Germany - 3
5. Italy - 3
6. Russia - 4
7. Turkey - 3
1. Russia -
Russia has done quite a job reversing his position as underdog;
turning it into one of dominance. He has a weak English neighbor to
the north, beleaguered German and Austrian neighbors and a friendly,
impressionable Turkish neighbor to the south. Things are looking good
on all fronts.
2. France -
Like Russia, he has no neighbors that constitute major threats. Since,
Germany seems to be rather unloved, he can keep his neighbors focused
on them. Once Germany has been disposed of, he will probably have his
pick of fronts to fight on. His only real problem is that the German
isn't dead, and may have a few tricks left up his sleeve. Of course,
if Germany assaults Russia, as he has suggested he might, France and
Russia should be flip flopped on this list.
3. Turkey -
To a large degree, Turkey has been the master of his own fate, so far.
Other than the Russian capture of Rumania, he's not faced an attack by
anyone.
Unfortunately, he's been relegated to pawn status. His inability to
devise a plan to move forward has resulted in his changing sides every
time someone comes along with another proposal. That, and his rather
defensible corner position will probably keep him alive for a while.
At least until some power starts to dominate the SE. After that, he'll
be expendable.
To avoid that fate, Turkey needs to start driving events, rather than
being driven. He needs to go to his neighbors and make proposals that
improve his position. As long as his neighbors are the ones making the
proposals, he'll remain a pawn.
4. Italy -
The terse press style he employs seems to limit his abilities to
manipulate his neighbors. Compare his press to Turkey vs Russia's
press to Turkey. It's little wonder that the Turk found Russia more
persuasive.
Even with a Turkish and French fleet build, he has no immediate
worries about attacks from his neighbors. Thus, he's ranked fourth.
5. England -
Since Russia and France will probably continue to fight Germany,
England has no immediate worries. However, once Germany falls, he'll
have to fight one of the two. In the meantime, he'd better pick up a
couple of German centers, or he'll soon find himself the odd man out.
Overall, I think he's played pretty well, except for one big problem.
After being attacked by Russia in Norway, and discussing an attack on
Sweden with Germany, he started to see the game through rose colored
glasses. He didn't consider what his opponents would really do,
instead he just thought about what he wanted them to do.
Here's some press of his that I thought was pretty effective:
From England to Germany 11/06/2003 11:06 AM
>> I will seriously consider supporting ska - swe whilst you cut
>> nwy support and I pick up hol.
>
> Not interested in you considering it - only interested in you
*doing > it* - please let me know when you've decided.
I had thought that Germany never actually responded to this, but in
reviewing the press, I find this:
From Germany to England 11/07/2003 1:30 AM
> I will support you in [to Sweden], be sure to cut Norwegian support.
However later, Germany said this:
From Germany to Germany 11/10/2003 11:59 AM
> I have not offered support into Sweden.
So maybe believing that the support from Germany would come through is
excusable, but thinking that Russia would abandon Norway is not.
6. Germany -
Germany certainly knows how to play this game. His evaluation of the
moves has been excellent (despite allowing France to take Munich).
He's suffered from a couple large problems:
1. Italy knows he's quite good and Italy shared that info with EF.
2. EF agreed with Italy's assessment that Germany should be
destroyed, asap.
3. Russia did not prove as easy to manipulate as he expected.
With EF pressing in on him, perhaps with Russia as well, and with no
real allies, he's going to have to dig deep into his bag of tricks to
salvage his position. One thing he does have going for him is
England's weakness. He can, quite correctly, point out that unless
England beefs up quite a bit, his life expectancy isn't much higher
than Germany's. Thus, if Germany denies England builds, he has a
decent chance of turning England.
7. Austria -
Perhaps Austria should be ahead of Germany. The situation in the SE is
so muddled, it's hard to say where Austria should be ranked. I think
that with Turkey being swayed from one side to the other, it's Austria
that's going to lose centers as others have the opportunity. I just
don't see a good future for Austria.
Greg
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
Yes, part of my earlier commitment is that if you don't get Den in Spring, I
support you there in Fall. That commitment is still in place. I just added to
it that if you do get there in Spring, then I should probably support you to
Kie in Fall. If Tony really does move to Swe, you will be in Den. If Tony
fails to order Den-Swe, then I'll be in Swe to help you come Fall. Either way
you will get at least one build.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
That's what I thought I remembered, but I wasn't sure & I'm at work. I hope
jury duty is treating you well.
Ben
Message from Russia to England
It wasn't going to. I was a prospective juror for what would have been a 4
week+ murder trial. While I'm sure it would have been interesting to serve
(assuming I had been chosen, which is no sure thing either), I had no idea
how I was going to manage that and work AND diplomacy.
Turns out the parties decided to argue the case before the judge (no jury)
and so I was excused this AM. Whew!
--- Eric
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> I would tell you if I thought he wanted to attack you - why wouldn't I -
> right now I think he didn't know what else to do with the build. I could be
> wrong & I'm not asking you to do anything particular, just sharing my 2c.
>
> Probably because of your history, you scare the crap out of him.
Thanks, I appreciate that...
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> It wasn't going to. I was a prospective juror for what would
> have been a 4 week+ murder trial.
Cool. A trial that long, probably has some ugly conspiracy connected.
Drugs, would be my guess.
> While I'm sure it would have been interesting to serve
> (assuming I had been chosen, which is no sure thing either),
> I had no idea how I was going to manage that and work AND
> diplomacy.
Get one of those little handheld e-mail doodads, and play Dip during the
trial. Who needs to pay attention? That's what the other 11 are for.
> Turns out the parties decided to argue the case before the
> judge (no jury) and so I was excused this AM. Whew!
Back to work. And Dip. Together.
For the capture of DEN, I am inclined to order NTH - DEN, to accommodate LON
- NTH, and then in the fall I would have all three units available for
operations against Germany. Slightly different from your proposal, but I
didn't think you'd mind.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Well Ben it's time for drastic meassures and weird and bizzar moves.
And weird and bizarre spelling too! Sorry, couldn't resist.
> I dont need comformation but here is one move I WILL BE DOING.
> i WILL BE PUSHING den - swe.
Ok.
> I leave it up to you to decide if you cut support from NWY
> and support me into SWE allowing us to pick up NWY in the
> fall. If on the other hand you decide to use this information
> and support yourself into NWY is up to you.
I will consult the Parliament and figure out the best tactic. I am hopeful
you understand - it seems you do - if I don't tell you in advance what that
will be.
> I am even a little tempted to push for PRU & SIL just to have
> some sort of revenge on the Russian and at the same time
> allowing France to take MUN & KIE. Rather a french solo that
> a draw excluding me.
I would agree with that - who wants to be eliminated in a draw. Yuck. But
of course you are about a thousand miles from that bridge - do not cross it
yet. Still I would understand you going to SIL, etc.; surely that A WAR is
not pro-German.
> So it's up to you. I dont need a reply to this press but DEN
> - SWE has been ordered.
Well, you got a reply anyway.
Good luck.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
> And weird and bizarre spelling too! Sorry, couldn't resist.>
Well I am dutch ;-)
> Ok.>
Ok
> I will consult the Parliament and figure out the best tactic. I am
hopeful
you understand - it seems you do - if I don't tell you in advance what that
will be.>
Either choice would be a pleasent surprise.
> I would agree with that - who wants to be eliminated in a draw. Yuck.
But
of course you are about a thousand miles from that bridge - do not cross it
yet. Still I would understand you going to SIL, etc.; surely that A WAR is
not pro-German.>
It was ment to compensate a Turkish build, I forget which one. The Russian
did press me to explain.
I will ignore him in press this turn, make him sweat a little ;-)
But you know the score, always offer all builds to one opponent, prefably
the strongest. It would be my last dying act.
Then I can just sit back and watch you to finally come to blows. Its funny
that 99 out of 100 S1901 moves always hold surprises, now only mine did. I
must admit though I pissed myself laughing when I received press regarding
Frances move to PIE. I couldnt stop laughing at the context of the text
where they quewried kweereed kwireed quireed kwiried (chose one) the sanity
of France. It has made the whole game worth while.
Good luck.
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
Do you know what you are doing with A Bul? Andy asked me before the builds if
I would be willing to tap Bud so that he can take Ser, and he hasn't
rescinded the request. Are you still planning to offer that support?
Actually, I really want to know if you are planning on *ordering* the
support. If you are not, or if you don't want it to be successful, I'd like
to know, so I don't waste a move.
Thanks, and good luck! If Andy thinks you are going to support him (whether
or not you do), you are in very good shape.
--- Eric
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> > And weird and bizarre spelling too! Sorry, couldn't resist.>
>
> Well I am dutch ;-)
I know. I felt alittle guilty but I didn't pass up the joke. Go ahead and
tease me for not knowing French or Dutch (or Spanish or Italian or
Russian, or Mandarin or Japanese or Portugese. Or German.).
> But you know the score, always offer all builds to one opponent, prefably
> the strongest. It would be my last dying act.
I suppose your experience is giving you some insight I lack - I do not seen
your doom so clearly.
> Then I can just sit back and watch you to finally come to blows. Its funny
> that 99 out of 100 S1901 moves always hold surprises, now only mine did. I
> must admit though I pissed myself laughing when I received press regarding
> Frances move to PIE. I couldnt stop laughing at the context of the text
> where they quewried kweereed kwireed quireed kwiried (chose one) the
sanity
> of France. It has made the whole game worth while.
:-) Queried.
Yeah, that was pretty funny. It was a low risk opening for me, assuming I
could trust France to stay out of ENG.
Well, good luck this spring.
Ben
Message from Turkey to Russia
No concrete plans for A Bul right now. Right now, Andy's a little
annoyed at my build, so we'll see how that goes down.
jason
Message from Turkey to Italy
Why the suspicion? Isn't that why we play Dip? :-)
Seriously, though, builds are in. How can we cooperate in the Balkans
this turn?
jason
Message from Italy to Turkey
>
> Why the suspicion? Isn't that why we play Dip? :-)
good point.
> Seriously, though, builds are in. How can we cooperate in the Balkans
> this turn?
Can I get a support to SER again.
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
Tony & Andy,
Following the recent constructions and Andy's overture,
it would seem that renewing the AIG alliance is the thing
to do. If we don't, the eF & Rt alliances will make short
work of us.
Of course, Russia is saying that War isn't aimed at me;
but even if it were true, it will only mean that he intend
to surround me by moving against Germany.
Hopefully, Andy really mean what he say this time, and
will demilitarize Venice; but if he doesn't, I intend to
favor Russia's expansion while hurting Andy as much as
possible.
This being clear, how do we proceed?
Philippe
Message from Germany to England
Just received some information. AI want to reactivate the never active AGI
alliance. Maybe the Juggernaut is about to roll. Interesting enough
information to pass on. You owe me one ;-) support into Sweden will suffice.
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
Well I have my own problems up north and am more than willing to share them.
I have received the same information from Russia regarding WAR. So I wonder
who it is intended for.
I am more than willing to see ven in pie, tun in wes and vie in boh.
Unrealistic but pleasing to the mind.
If either of you has a magic wand then please do wave wave wave.
For the spring I have my hands full in GErmany. I may be facing EFR all at
once.
I have considered pru and sil but by going there I would only be giving
france all my sc's. Even if AG managed to take WAR then I for one probably
wont be able to build.
But if either of you have any ideas then I am all ears. Not for long as my
head will sonn be rolling.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Just received some information. AI want to reactivate the
> never active AGI alliance.
Ressurrecting the non-dead?
> Maybe the Juggernaut is about to roll. Interesting enough
> information to pass on. You owe me one ;-) support into
> Sweden will suffice.
:-) NWY & STP for me, I suppose?
Ben
Message from Germany to England
> :-) NWY & STP for me, I suppose?>
Hardly.....
you support me into Sweden. I build a fleet in Kiel.
you retreat from NTH, I then take London and EDI in one year and swap them
both for NWY & STP the year after.
chose wisely, there is nothing worse than French Germans ;-)
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Hardly.....
> you support me into Sweden. I build a fleet in Kiel.
> you retreat from NTH, I then take London and EDI in one year
> and swap them both for NWY & STP the year after.
Hmm, let me check my map.
Ok, as long as I get to finish out the game as a one center puppet in STP.
Agreed?
Ben
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
What about the following?
Germany: Hol-Ruh, Kie s Hol-Ruh, Ber-Pru, Mun-Boh & Den-Bal or hold.
Italy: Ven-Pie, Tun-Wes, Ion-Tys, Gre-Bul & Rom-Tus for convoy to Spa.
Austria: Vie-Boh, Ser s Gre-Bul, Bud-Rum & Adr-Ion.
Major points being:
-Russia can't get more then one army near Germany.
-Any repositionning of RT fleets in the south see Turkey lose Bul.
-France lose the initiative to Italy in the south.
This leave me wide open to a stab by Andy, but I don't have
much choice and will have to rely on Andy's survival instinct.
Philippe
Message from Germany to Germany
I have just taken time to download the map history and I reviewed my moves.
What a bunch of crap moves they were in all instances following S1901M.
Looking back I query my sanity at the time, I can only conclude that I am
sick.
I hope I can rectify the problem or at least find a cure.
I need a kick in my complacency.
I smell a juggernaut and a possible RF. The Italian build does not suggest
that AI have sorted their problems out. The Turkish build however suggest
that RT have sorted theirs out, at least for now. I wouldnt be surprised to
see an IR, FT forming. The north will be the most interesting for me. I do
believe that England would be wise to go after NWY from SKA. I just hope
that he believes me one more time.
Message from Germany to England
How do you interperate the WAR build? a possible FR alliance? GAL/BOH to FR
and then divide England between themselves?
Message from Germany to Russia
Yes the build was a little concerning although it did open doors which I
thought were closed.
The English disband and French build still points to a strong EF alliance.
Austria informed me that you informed him that the build was not aimed at
him.
The side effects being AI's wish to rekindle the never allive AGI central
alliance.
All I can ask of you is can you support me in Denmark. I have not yet seen
any crack in the EF alliance.
At the moment all I can say to England is that I will give all my SC's to
France. Your support from Sweden would at least slow their advance down. If
England has no deal with you then I am expecting NTH - HEL, LON - NTH.
Message from Germany to England
> Ok, as long as I get to finish out the game as a one center puppet in STP.
Agreed?>
I hate it when you beg, but make it a one center puppet in Paris and you are
on.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> How do you interperate the WAR build? a possible FR alliance?
> GAL/BOH to FR
> and then divide England between themselves?
Russia told me it was anti-German, but the information content is low, as of
course he would say that.
> I hate it when you beg, but make it a one center puppet in
> Paris and you are on.
You drive a hard bargain. I will look into available apartments, as soon as
I stop picking my toenails.
Ben
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
It would be interesting to know what has brought you two together? Is it the
juggernaut, the French build or both?
It would also be good to hear from Italy.
I dont mind playing dead this year and losing MUN, DEN and maybe HOL. That
is what will probably happen.
I am expecting nth - hel, lon - nth, ska - den supported by swe.
If I am going to die then I would like more insight to know for sure that I
am dying for a worthy cause.
Message from Germany to England
> Russia told me it was anti-German, but the information content is low, as
of
> course he would say that.>
He told me it was anti Turkish and definitely not anti German. He was
worried that Turkey build an army.
As of course he would say that. Austria informed me that Russia informed him
that the unit wasnt anti Austrian
As of course Russia would say. The turkish build however does point to RT.
> I will look into available apartments, as soon as
> I stop picking my toenails.>
How old fashioned, I usually bite mine or have my wife pick them for me.
Any way speaking of hard bargains here is the deal. No matter what happens I
will be moving DEN - SWE.
I think I owe you this much. I am expect NTH - HEL, LON - NTH, SKA - DEN
supported by SWE.
On the other hand Austria has asked me to move BER - SIL and MUN - BOH.
In one swoop I could lose DEN, HOL, MUN and stand a remote chance of gaining
WAR.
This in conjunction with DEN - SWE could be my last dying act, go out with a
blast kind of thing.
I have started up 4 other games. The above moves may make it interesting for
the gallery (if anyone actually signed on).
Its bed time here, speak to you soon.
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> It would be interesting to know what has brought you two together? Is it the
> juggernaut, the French build or both?
> It would also be good to hear from Italy.
> I dont mind playing dead this year and losing MUN, DEN and maybe HOL. That
> is what will probably happen.
> I am expecting nth - hel, lon - nth, ska - den supported by swe.
> If I am going to die then I would like more insight to know for sure that I
> am dying for a worthy cause.
In truth, Andy only told me I didn't have to fear him
anymore since he had bigger problems. Since it seem
to really be the case, I opted to believe him.
Now, I would hope to hear more from him...
Philippe
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> > Russia told me it was anti-German, but the information content is low,
as
> of
> > course he would say that.>
>
> He told me it was anti Turkish and definitely not anti German. He was
> worried that Turkey build an army.
> As of course he would say that. Austria informed me that Russia informed
him
> that the unit wasnt anti Austrian
> As of course Russia would say. The turkish build however does point to RT.
And if there were RT conflict, you would expect /F/ SEV, rather than an
army, on this board.
> > I will look into available apartments, as soon as
> > I stop picking my toenails.>
>
> How old fashioned, I usually bite mine or have my wife pick them for me.
Kids are too old?
> Any way speaking of hard bargains here is the deal. No matter what
happens I
> will be moving DEN - SWE.
> I think I owe you this much. I am expect NTH - HEL, LON - NTH, SKA - DEN
> supported by SWE.
>
> On the other hand Austria has asked me to move BER - SIL and MUN - BOH.
> In one swoop I could lose DEN, HOL, MUN and stand a remote chance of
gaining
> WAR.
>
> This in conjunction with DEN - SWE could be my last dying act, go out
with a
> blast kind of thing.
> I have started up 4 other games. The above moves may make it interesting
for
> the gallery (if anyone actually signed on).
> Its bed time here, speak to you soon.
I could not handle your game load. I am at 4 right now - one of them I
picked up in what I thought was the endgame, but it turned out it wasn't -
and it's just too many.
Ben
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
Gentlemen,
apologies for my silence. Its been a tough couple of weeks around here.
> In truth, Andy only told me I didn't have to fear him
> anymore since he had bigger problems. Since it seem
> to really be the case, I opted to believe him.
>
> Now, I would hope to hear more from him...
What do you guys want to do, since we do have a RT coming at us...
You mentioned a full move on the French...which is possible.
Im buried at work and trying to coordinate going to 2 funerals in 2
different cities.
Message from France to Turkey
England and I don't actually have much of a plan to keep him in check.
England's been bickering with him over Norway and I've been trying to
figure out how he can help me against Russia. Meanwhile, he's grown to
seven centers.
Anyway, I suppose he and England must have worked something out, as the
Russian builds were clearly pretty friendly to Ben. Now, what is he going
to do with A War?
Austria wrote me somewhat despondantly, though I think he's more confused
about the recent turn of events than anything else. I don't think he
appreciates the degree to which his neighbors have joined against him.
When Austria's gone, how long do you think the RT friendship will hold
out? I know he's been relatively friendly with Andy all game, so you
might want to watch out for a squeeze from the two of them. I'd hate to
see Russia lock up the entire Eastern side of the board.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
I think the builds were fine. You seem to have taken a load off of Ben's
mind, and that's good for both of us. What is A War going to do?
Andy was a little perturbed about F Mar, but I think I've explained it
away. I just need him to spend at least two more turns tied up with
Austria. Do you think that's likely?
Ben will want to take Holland before Denmark, I think. I'm inclined to
give it to him, though it might mean an additional build for him. Without
another chink taken out of the Western German front, I don't see myself
breaking through. Of course, with support from the other side from you ...
Hope the jury duty isn't too much of a pain. Let me know your thinking
when you get the chance. Also, has Germany approached you for help yet?
He's been quiet with me, so I think he's decided to stop trusting me.
Erik
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> Im buried at work and trying to coordinate going to 2 funerals in 2
> different cities.
Sorry about that.
I already outline a plan. So, when you have the time to
examine it in details, let me know what you think of it.
Philippe
Message from Germany to England
I have 10 games at the moment, seven of which are press games.
I looked back at my moves in this game using the map history, what a bunch
of amateur moves I made.
I am wondering what caused it. Maybe to many late nights. I have played
games where I considered everybody an enemy and treated them as such. I had
better results then than in this game. How I managed to make it to rank 340
with these types of moves I dont know. It must be a dip in my diplomacy
tatctical skills just as these occur in golf.
Question is how to continue. I can only gurantee DEN - SWE. I have asked for
an explanation from IA regarding there sudden friendship. Is it the
Juggernaut that spooked them or the French build or both. I dont mind dying
for a good cause. Especially not if I have made such a mess of moves when in
hindsight basic diplomacy tatctical moves would have surviced.
Any tips on which way to go with MUN, BER, KIE, HOL?
You know the moves I am expecting. I am just wondering if you are keeping an
eye on the big picture.
Hmmmmm blaze of glory exit (attack sil/boh) or just stick to common sense
and try and salvage what can be salvaged. Once again the only set move is
DEN - SWE. I have to leave you with at least one word kept concerning moves.
Interesting though that Russia has probably lied about moves in scandinavia
as much as I did.
If you dont think I will keep my word then expect DEN - HEL.
But as you well know my only chance is you taking Norway so DEN - SWE it
will be.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Reading between the lines of press I've gotten, RT is pretty likely. Plus
as we said, the board does not deny it.
> I have 10 games at the moment, seven of which are press games.
> I looked back at my moves in this game using the map history,
> what a bunch of amateur moves I made.
If you're not good - like I'm not good - then your expectations will be
lower. Try it!
> I am wondering what caused it. Maybe to many late nights. I
> have played
> games where I considered everybody an enemy and treated them
> as such. I had
> better results then than in this game. How I managed to make
> it to rank 340
> with these types of moves I dont know. It must be a dip in my
> diplomacy tatctical skills just as these occur in golf.
Yeah, looking back at games I am often disappointed at mistakes I've made at
a couple of critical points.
> Question is how to continue. I can only gurantee DEN - SWE. I
> have asked for
> an explanation from IA regarding there sudden friendship. Is it the
> Juggernaut that spooked them or the French build or both. I
> dont mind dying
> for a good cause. Especially not if I have made such a mess
> of moves when in
> hindsight basic diplomacy tatctical moves would have surviced.
IA is a natural response if they, like you and I, sniff an RT.
> Any tips on which way to go with MUN, BER, KIE, HOL?
Depends. I would expect an attack from Russia and an attack from France, in
your shoes. So, as you've said in so many words, pick your poison.
> You know the moves I am expecting. I am just wondering if you
> are keeping an eye on the big picture.
I try.
> Hmmmmm blaze of glory exit (attack sil/boh) or just stick to
> common sense
> and try and salvage what can be salvaged. Once again the only
> set move is
> DEN - SWE. I have to leave you with at least one word kept
> concerning moves.
> Interesting though that Russia has probably lied about moves
> in scandinavia as much as I did.
True. . .
> If you dont think I will keep my word then expect DEN - HEL.
> But as you well know my only chance is you taking Norway so
> DEN - SWE it will be.
Ok. Last time I told you I was counting on you doing what you said, and it
came back to hurt me, so this time forgive me for accepting your offer
without expressing any reliance on it.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
By the way, Tony,
> I have 10 games at the moment, seven of which are press games.
You are an insane person. I do not know how you can keep track. I am
drowning in my 4.
Ben
Message from Austria to France
Hi Erik,
Well, with all the trouble I'm in, I'm glad to see
you build a fleet in Mar.
Do you have any good news for me?
Philippe
Message from Austria to England
Hi Ben,
Unless I'm mistaken, an RT it is. It may help
on the italian front, but I will have to wait to
know for sure.
Have you heard anything on your side?
Philippe
Message from Austria to Russia
Eric,
I thought we had changed tactic and that the goal of getting
you in Rum was to see you build a fleet. Instead, you opt
to build two armies. You may say they aren't aimed at me,
but if your goal was to expand in the north, why not build a
fleet in Stp?
Hopefully, this will make thing easier with Andy, but one
thing is sure, I don't want you in Boh. In fact, I will be
keeping watch on what you do with all those armies.
Yours truly,
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
> > Im buried at work and trying to coordinate going to 2 funerals in 2
> > different cities.
>
> Sorry about that.
>
> I already outline a plan. So, when you have the time to
> examine it in details, let me know what you think of it.
I glanced at it, and it looked decent, let me get a good look at it
tonight and I will get back to you then.
Andy
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> Unless I'm mistaken, an RT it is. It may help
> on the italian front, but I will have to wait to
> know for sure.
>
> Have you heard anything on your side?
Reading between the lines of some press I got from Turkey, and on the
builds, I am pretty sure of the RT. I am hoping you can now bury the
hatchet with Andy and work with him - he is well situated to push East, if
he likes. I do not think he has anything to fear from Erik - yet - F MAR
notwithstanding.
Everything I hear from Eric is sugar and spice. So it is difficult to
distill meaning or truth in correspondence from him. But that is my guess.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Philippe I think is ready to work with you. Give it a shot - I believe the
East has drifted (again) into an RT.
No doubt I'm two steps behind & you are on it already, but if not.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
I have 10 games at the moment, seven of which are press games.
I looked back at my moves in this game using the map history, what a bunch of amateur moves I made.
I am wondering what caused it. Maybe to many late nights. I have played games where I considered everybody an enemy and treated them as such. I had better results then than in this game. How I managed to make it to rank 340 with these types of moves I dont know. It must be a dip in my diplomacy tatctical skills just as these occur in golf.
Question is how to continue. I can only gurantee DEN - SWE. I have asked for an explanation from IA regarding there sudden friendship. Is it the Juggernaut that spooked them or the French build or both. I dont mind dying for a good cause. Especially not if I have made such a mess of moves when in hindsight basic diplomacy tatctical moves would have surviced.
Any tips on which way to go with MUN, BER, KIE, HOL?
You know the moves I am expecting. I am just wondering if you are keeping an eye on the big picture.
Hmmmmm blaze of glory exit (attack sil/boh) or just stick to common sense and try and salvage what can be salvaged. Once again the only set move is DEN - SWE. I have to leave you with at least one word kept concerning moves. Interesting though that Russia has probably lied about moves in scandinavia as much as I did.
If you dont think I will keep my word then expect DEN - HEL.
But as you well know my only chance is you taking Norway so DEN - SWE it will be.
Message from Italy to England
>
> No doubt I'm two steps behind & you are on it already, but if not.
>
Just to make sure you understand what you are asking me to do.
I am moving on Erik..right now.
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
I've taken the liberty of encouraging Andy to work with you. Perhaps he is
already, but AI is important in the face of RT. As you know.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> Just to make sure you understand what you are asking me to do.
> I am moving on Erik..right now.
Erm. No. That's not what I had in mind, though I would understand it,
after F MAR.
I believe there is an RT, in which case I hope you could bury the hatchet
and cooperate with Philippe in the East. Surely you are troubled by F SMY.
Either way you go has its advantages for me. But what I'd been asking, was
for you to push against RT with an IA.
Sorry I was unclear.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
Let me make it clearer.
> > Just to make sure you understand what you are asking me to do.
> > I am moving on Erik..right now.
> Erm. No. That's not what I had in mind, though I would understand it,
> after F MAR.
>
> I believe there is an RT, in which case I hope you could bury the hatchet
> and cooperate with Philippe in the East. Surely you are troubled by F SMY.
>
> Either way you go has its advantages for me. But what I'd been asking, was
> for you to push against RT with an IA.
>
> Sorry I was unclear.
In order for me to bury the hatchet with Philippe, I *MUST* move on Erik.
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> Let me make it clearer.
>
> In order for me to bury the hatchet with Philippe, I *MUST* move on Erik.
Ok, now I understand you, but I still don't understand you. What about ION
- EAS/AEG, TUN - ION, VEN - TYR, ROM - VEN? Is this not a Lepanto, several
seasons late? With TYR - BOH - etc. (or TYR - PIE, or VIE, or MUN, or
whatever?)
I'm not trying to get you killed by Erik, obviously that hurts me second
only to you.
What I want to know is, can you wait for me to get in position to work with
you? Depending on how fast Germany goes down - hopefully soon.
So I can be smarter, I'd also like for you to explain to me why you have to
attack France to get Austrian cooperation - I would think for now Philippe
wouldn't be making too many demands. . .
Ben
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
> > In order for me to bury the hatchet with Philippe, I *MUST* move on Erik.
> Ok, now I understand you, but I still don't understand you. What about ION
> - EAS/AEG, TUN - ION, VEN - TYR, ROM - VEN? Is this not a Lepanto, several
> seasons late? With TYR - BOH - etc. (or TYR - PIE, or VIE, or MUN, or
> whatever?)
No...you dont.
Philippe has told me, that if I make any set of moves other than what he
has *requested*, he will fight me an GIVE his dots to Russia.
> I'm not trying to get you killed by Erik, obviously that hurts me second
> only to you.
I think that is a good idea too.
> What I want to know is, can you wait for me to get in position to work with
> you? Depending on how fast Germany goes down - hopefully soon.
Well....maybe...if I dont work with Austria, I might be able to do that.
Andy
Message from Italy to Turkey
Jason...
After building a fleet in Smyrna...you have gotten damn quiet.
After asking me what I would like you to do, and me telling you, you have
gone completely silent.
What is going on.
Help me out here...do I have supports to Serbia??
Thanks
Andy
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
One thing you can try is, if you can successfully bury the hatchet with
Andy, a late Lepanto. It's like you & he are already set up for it: his
fleets push east & his army VEN goes TYR - BOH to help with GAL and
ultimately to WAR, etc. It's the original Lepanto, and the best way to
bring his units to bear against RT, as far as I know.
It would require some trust on both your parts, but it is the natural &
old-fashioned antidote to the Juggernaut.
Do you want me to bounce it off him, or something? Let me know your
thoughts.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
I wrote Philippe - he & I were already corresponding about the Juggernaut -
I extolled the virtues of the good ole-fashioned Lepanto, VEN - TYR - BOH
etc.
Hopefully he will nibble.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
I think I passed insane when I had 29 games going at once.
Message from Austria to England
> Do you want me to bounce it off him, or something? Let me know your
> thoughts.
Thanks Ben,
I appreciate it, but would prefer you wait abit to see how he
react to your initial approach first. I wouldn't want to rush
him.
Also, does your word carry any weight with Jason? It would
be interesting to have him start thinking to break off the RT,
so it's easier to convince him to do so later on.
Regards,
Philippe
Message from Observer to Observer
Somebody has their Eriks and Erics mixed up. :-)
Presumably it is not intentional. I get the impression Andy wants E&F to stick together, and it is not an invention
similar to the one which brought about Jason's precipitous and paranoid F1901B build.
Regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: <c2f@yahoogroups.com>
To: <c2f@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 6:58 PM
Subject: [c2f] Digest Number 70
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:42:57 +0000 (UTC)
> From: USTX Diplomacy Judge <ustx@spencersoft.com>
> Subject: USTX:c2 - F1902B Press from E to I
>
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> now running njudge 1.4.0
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from benjamin.harris@mindspring.com as England to Italy in 'c2':
>
> Andy -
> Eric screwed me in 02. Still if you can help repair that bridge, I
> think Eric wants to see me attack Tony & I will comply, if Eric will
> assist me, instead of taking my dots.
>
> What do you think
>
> and
>
> What can you do to help.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ben
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:34:43 +0000 (UTC)
> From: USTX Diplomacy Judge <ustx@spencersoft.com>
> Subject: USTX:c2 - F1902B Press from I to F
>
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> now running njudge 1.4.0
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from buffalo@guisarme.net as Italy to France in 'c2':
>
>
> Erik...
>
> That wasnt nice.
>
> England says you screwed him. But is still willing to work with you
> against Tony.
>
> Go make nice with him. Please
>
>
> Thanks
> Andy
>
> Bones Heal
> Chicks Dig Scars
> Pain is Temporary
> Glory is Forever
>
> - Rugby Proverb
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:35:31 +0000 (UTC)
> From: USTX Diplomacy Judge <ustx@spencersoft.com>
> Subject: USTX:c2 - F1902B Press from I to E
>
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> now running njudge 1.4.0
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from buffalo@guisarme.net as Italy to England in 'c2':
>
>
>
> > Andy -
> > Eric screwed me in 02. Still if you can help repair that bridge, I
> > think Eric wants to see me attack Tony & I will comply, if Eric will
> > assist me, instead of taking my dots.
>
> Im working on it.
>
>
> I want to see how he responds to my note.
>
>
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:13:23 +0000 (UTC)
> From: USTX Diplomacy Judge <ustx@spencersoft.com>
> Subject: USTX:c2 - F1902B Press from F to I
>
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> now running njudge 1.4.0
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from erik@spamcop.net as France to Italy in 'c2':
>
>
> Andy:
>
> > Erik...
> >
> > That wasnt nice.
>
> Taking Belgium wasn't nice? Taking Portugal wasn't nice? What? Is there a
> Portugese player that I don't know about?
>
> > England says you screwed him. But is still willing to work with you
> > against Tony.
>
> I'm not sure how. I certainly haven't screwed him as far as I can tell. In
> fact, I put a lot of effort into trying to get Norway back to his control.
> If I screwed anyone in the process, it was Tony, but I've been messing
> with him all game.
>
> So where did you reach these, uh, conclusions?
>
> > Go make nice with him. Please
> >
>
> Just a reminder, Andy: this is c2, the comments game. You must be playing
> in multiple games and getting confused, because your comments to me aren't
> really reflective of any reality I can see.
>
> Of course, maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture. In that case, I'd love
> to be filled in.
>
> Erik
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:18:21 +0000 (UTC)
> From: USTX Diplomacy Judge <ustx@spencersoft.com>
> Subject: USTX:c2 - F1902B Press from I to F
>
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> now running njudge 1.4.0
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from buffalo@guisarme.net as Italy to France in 'c2':
>
>
> > >
> > > That wasnt nice.
> >
> > Taking Belgium wasn't nice? Taking Portugal wasn't nice? What? Is there a
> > Portugese player that I don't know about?
> >
>
> I think they were both very nice.
>
>
> > > England says you screwed him. But is still willing to work with you
> > > against Tony.
> >
> > I'm not sure how. I certainly haven't screwed him as far as I can tell. In
> > fact, I put a lot of effort into trying to get Norway back to his control.
> > If I screwed anyone in the process, it was Tony, but I've been messing
> > with him all game.
> >
> > So where did you reach these, uh, conclusions?
> >
> >From the press the English sent me asking me to mediate getting you two
> back on the same page.
>
> His words were....France screwed me in 02', but I still want to work with
> him.
>
> > > Go make nice with him. Please
> >
> > Just a reminder, Andy: this is c2, the comments game. You must be playing
> > in multiple games and getting confused, because your comments to me aren't
> > really reflective of any reality I can see.
> >
> > Of course, maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture. In that case, I'd love
> > to be filled in.
>
> Im not confusing anything, I am just passing on the request of the
> English.
>
> You should talk to him.
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:25:25 +0000 (UTC)
> From: USTX Diplomacy Judge <ustx@spencersoft.com>
> Subject: USTX:c2 - F1902B Press from I to R
>
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> now running njudge 1.4.0
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from buffalo@guisarme.net as Italy to Russia in 'c2':
>
>
> Eric...
>
> So what is the plan.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:36:54 +0000 (UTC)
> From: USTX Diplomacy Judge <ustx@spencersoft.com>
> Subject: USTX:c2 - F1902B Press from F to E
>
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> now running njudge 1.4.0
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from erik@spamcop.net as France to England in 'c2':
>
> >
> > Erik -
> > I made a big mistake not attacking DEN. Still I am hopeful for Russian
> > cooperation.
>
> True. Last turn could have gone better all around, I think, despite my
> gains in Belgium. Actually taking Munich sort of threw me for a loop, and
> the Russian's wacky set of moves really kind of derailed your efforts.
>
> >
> > Your moves have been exclusively anti-Germany. Andy can live with a F
> > MAR; hold it
> > back if you like. I can write him of your defensive intentions, if you
> > like.
> >
>
> I suppose you're right. Speaking of Andy, he's been sending me messages
> urging me to "make nice" with you, and claims that you've been claiming to
> him that I somehow screwed you in '02. What's the story with that?
>
> Erik
>
>
>
Message from Turkey to Italy
My apologies on the delay. It's been a busy week, and I just forgot to
get back to you.
You can count on my support into Ser.
jason
Message from Turkey to France
Well, RT's been on-again, off-again, so we'll see how it goes down. I'm
trying to balance the two of them, without simply angering them both. :-)
jason
Message from Turkey to Russia
Support orders for Gre - Ser. I assume your shuffle is still on?
jason
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> I appreciate it, but would prefer you wait abit to see how he
> react to your initial approach first. I wouldn't want to rush
> him.
I do not understand this. My initial approach to him was that he should
try to work with you, because an AI is necessary to fight an RT. Without
it, A goes down first, and I, G and E soon after. The only power that may
benefit is France, and clearly the power that goes down the hardest is
Austria - you. You say you want to wait and see, my friend, if you do,
then you and shortly after, I will pay the price. *My* survival depends on
your ability to fight off an RT, which you cannot do without Italian
assistance both against Turkey - TUN - EAS, etc., and against Russia - VEN
- TYR - BOH. I do not write these words lightly - I am deadly serious. If
you and Andy cannot hold hands for alittle while and play nice, this game
will be over in 1912 or so with a RTF draw.
I do not have blinders on about Andy and I would engage him as an ally only
cautiously. But he has every reason to want to fight *Turkey* - not you -
and he can't really fight France right now, without crippling me, thus
benefitting the RT even more.
This is not good. Andy is well situated to push East - to his natural
target, Turkey - but if he waits a phase or two, as you seem to prefer, he
may not be in such a good position, and may not be able to help you. You
will be the first to go.
> Also, does your word carry any weight with Jason? It would
> be interesting to have him start thinking to break off the RT,
> so it's easier to convince him to do so later on.
Jason listens but he doesn't take my advice. Lately he doesn't have much
to say, either. . .
In this position, as in most, you must choose from among a selection of
imperfect options. Choose wisely.
Ben
Message from England to England
I do not doubt Andy's description of his negotiations with Philippe. They
are consistent with tactics & what I've heard elsewhere, including from
Philippe himself.
My press to him pretty much is how I feel - not much to add.
Ben
Message from Russia to all
Everyone,
Sometime Thursday afternoon I was hit hard by a bug (cold or flu) of
somesort which completely wiped me out. I've been pretty much out of
commission for the last 48-60ish hours. I'll try to catch up with
communications tonight and tomorrow, but wanted to let folks know that I'm
not intentionally ignoring anyone.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
>I thought we had changed tactic and that the goal of getting
>you in Rum was to see you build a fleet. Instead, you opt
>to build two armies.
Sorry, I had gotten the distinct impression that you preferred that Jason
and I cooperate. After taking Rum, we talked, and right near the deadline
he agreed to build F Smy. With that, I changed my build from F Sev to A Sev.
> You may say they aren't aimed at me,
>but if your goal was to expand in the north, why not build a
>fleet in Stp?
Part of that was the last minute change from Turkey. I did not want to
build two fleets, because I think it is bad policy for Russia to have more
fleets than armies in the early game. With F Sev as an assumed build, that
left out F StP. While I did think about changing things around after I
switched to A Sev, I had already convinced myself that F StP was a bad
thing. Granted, that's mostly irrelevant with A Sev, but that was the thinking.
>Hopefully, this will make thing easier with Andy, but one
>thing is sure, I don't want you in Boh.
Again, I thought that we had agreed that seeing IT fight was good for both
of us, and my builds, along with the expected F Smy, were largely intended
to make sure that Andy wouldn't think he could gain control of the
situation in and around your centers. Without your request, I will not be
moving to Boh (and I didn't really expect you'd want me to).
Both I and T continue to ask me to make moves that would allow them to take
Ser, which leads me to believe that Andy is still looking to expand quickly
through the Balkans, though I can see other reasons they each might ask for
those moves as well. What are you hearing from the two of them.
>In fact, I will be
>keeping watch on what you do with all those armies.
I wouldn't expect anything else.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
So a couple of questions: Do you want the Gre-Ser move to succeed? That is,
do you want me to move Gal-Bud to cut support? If we do that, I could see
me supporting you into Ser afterwards, since that should drastically reduce
the number of armies that AI have in the area after the move takes place.
Is that what you see happening in Fall?
And yes, the unit shuffle is still on.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
>I think the builds were fine.
Well, as one of two players not threatened by then, it's hardly surprising
that you'd say that! :)
>You seem to have taken a load off of Ben's
>mind, and that's good for both of us.
If it didn't, then there'd be some real problems.
>Andy was a little perturbed about F Mar, but I think I've explained it
>away. I just need him to spend at least two more turns tied up with
>Austria. Do you think that's likely?
From what I hear, yes, though I also realize that it's in Andy's interest
for me to think that there's easy pickings if I want to pile on Austria
with him.
>Ben will want to take Holland before Denmark, I think. I'm inclined to
>give it to him, though it might mean an additional build for him. Without
>another chink taken out of the Western German front, I don't see myself
>breaking through. Of course, with support from the other side from you ...
Well, that's certainly something that was in my mind when I built A War.
What A War will do is still unclear. It might support Gal, it might
encroach on German space, it might go south, though frankly I think the
latter is least likely at this point.
>Hope the jury duty isn't too much of a pain.
Actually, it ended fairly quickly -- only two half days lost to it. Could
have been a lot worse had I been selected, given that it was a murder
trial, but in fact the case did not go to Jury trial after all.
> Let me know your thinking
>when you get the chance. Also, has Germany approached you for help yet?
>He's been quiet with me, so I think he's decided to stop trusting me.
He has asked me for support, though as expected, the lack of F StP/nc has
dampened his enthusiasm considerably.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Hi Ben,
Checking in after my unexpected absence. Looking over the board there's a
number of things that come to mind. Ironically, it was Tony that pointed
out to me that you might want to move to Hel. He suggested that I offer you
(but not provide) support to Den so that you wouldn't try to go there. If
you were to take Hel, that would give us attacks on both Kie and Den in
Fall, and very likely get your Lon fleet on board against Germany in any
case. From Erik, I also get the sense that he'd be willing to support you
to Hol, and I could see Nth-Hol/Lon-Nth as being something you might like
as well.
If I had to guess, I would say that Tony will indeed make a move that
supports you against me, whether that be Den-Swe or actually offering the
support he failed to provide last season. I'm hoping that you won't take
advantage of any such support, seeing how we've been able to work together
pretty well, but I gave you all the initiative in that respect when I
decided against building in StP.
Let me know what you think. I have selfish and I think self-evident reasons
for preferring you going to Hel or Hol over taking Den in Spring, but I'm
not trying to be pushy. Just want to consider the options.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
>Yes the build was a little concerning although it did open doors which I
>thought were closed.
>
>The side effects being AI's wish to rekindle the never allive AGI central
>alliance.
Which is not at all surprising. Not building F StP was a hard call for me,
and was in part due to how things changed in the south in the waning
moments of the turn. There were two problem I saw with F StP. One is that
it would basically force England to take your support against me -- and
because I know you want to see pressure eased, I was not confident that you
wouldn't offer that support. Granted you can still offer that support, and
England can pretty much take Scandinavia with and perhaps even without your
help, but without F StP, he is not *forced* to move that way. The second
thing is that I did not want to build two fleets, so when I finally decided
against F StP, it was F Sev and not F StP. Late negotiations led to the
agreement where I did not build F Sev, and I didn't fully reconsider the F
StP decision.
>All I can ask of you is can you support me in Denmark. I have not yet seen
>any crack in the EF alliance.
>
>At the moment all I can say to England is that I will give all my SC's to
>France. Your support from Sweden would at least slow their advance down. If
>England has no deal with you then I am expecting NTH - HEL, LON - NTH.
I don't think you need my support in Spring, though if you are right, you
will in Fall.
What might actually be better is if I tell England that I'll support him to
Den. That way maybe he'll attack you in place without moving to Hel. Also,
if we know that he's going to be attacking Den, then we can disband the
fleet in Ska. If he moves Ska-Den, then Kie S Den, Den S Swe-Ska works. If
he moves Ska S Nth-Den, then Swe S Den-Ska, Kie-Den disbands it while still
bouncing Nth-Den.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy --
>he says he is still supporting me there (Ser), so please go forward with that.
Wow. I'm surprised he agreed to that. What did you say to make it seem like
a good idea to him?
> > BTW, I've got jury duty today, so don't know when I'll be able to get
> back to
> > my computer before late night. I don't think they have wireless in the
> > courtroom yet!
>
>Im sure they dont....Im surprised they let you bring your computer in
I was too, but they didn't say anything about it. Of course, I never took
it out and tried to use it. I only had it on me in case I got to leave for
work (I take the bus to work, so had to carry all my work gear to the
courthouse). As it turns out, the trial was cancelled -- or at least the
jury trial was cancelled -- in the case for which I was a potential juror,
so I'm now off the hook for two more years. Just as well, since I got sick
two days later....
--- Eric
Message from England to France and Russia
Greetings Erik and Eric. I have been corresponding with you separately
about our approach to Germany and now I write you together.
What Eric had proposed initially is, I attempt DEN while he moves to BAL
and SWE. The idea being, then in the fall he can support me into KIE and
we can do as much damage as possible to Germany in the year.
An alternative, recently proposed also by Eric, is that I try for HEL in
the spring, and (I suppose) he will support me into DEN that same season.
Eric I may have misunderstood but it would seem to me the most logical use
of SKA.
Erik has offered support to HOL.
My preference is to accept Eric's original proposal of fall support into
KIE while I try for DEN in the spring. If (a) I successfully dislodge DEN
then it will surely retreat to HEL. If (b) I fail to dislodge DEN then
with Russian support I can capture it in the fall. If (a) then I am not
going to capture both KIE and HOL in the fall, and if (b) then I will
capture - with Erik's support - HOL and hold DEN. Either way, gaining two
at Germany's expense.
My preference for this strategy is a mild one - I am up for just about
anything. Let me know your thoughts.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I hope you feel better.
I did not think you would mind me including Erik in our discussions.
I have tickets to the game today! Going to see the 'Hawks come to town!
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
There is an RT again. I am glad to work with Eric for awhile but for the
good of the Atlantic and the stalemate line, bear in mind that we cannot
let him get further than NWY, and he needs zero more northern fleets.
Ben
Message from Italy to Turkey
> My apologies on the delay. It's been a busy week, and I just forgot to
> get back to you.
>
> You can count on my support into Ser.
Excellent.
thanks for getting back to me.
Message from Germany to Germany
Not much I can do. I will be vutting support from Sweden but I wont be
moving against Russia. I may as well hang on in there for as long as
possible. I am expecting FR to come after me. Maybe Sweden will move to BAL.
WAR & GAL may move on PRU & SIL.
Message from Turkey to Russia
I don't have a preference on you cutting Bud. If he gets Ser, I'll
insist on Gre. Otherwise, I'll get Ser. Six of one, half a dozen of the
other.
jason
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
Are we all ok with Philippe's plan.
I am, but things have been quiet for the last few days, so I thought I
would check in.
Andy
Message from France to England and Russia
Ben:
Your plan sounds good, but I'm worried about butting my head into Munich
over and over while you two make gains. Granted, you're in a weak
position, and you need builds more than either of us. I'd really like to
get into Munich, though -- any chance that Warsaw could move to Silesia,
Eric?
I also need to keep a close eye on Andy. Ben, any idea what he's up to? His
replies to me are terse and mystifiying, as usual.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
>
> My preference is to accept Eric's original proposal of fall support into
> KIE while I try for DEN in the spring.
I like this. Holland is the better option for him, frankly, but he's
willing to forgo that to hit what, in the end, are better targets for us
to have him go for -- they leave him overextended and out of position to
swing back and attack me. I would think this would occur to Ben, so I'm
wondering if there's something else going on. I'm pretty sure he no longer
trusts Tony enough to be planning something with him, but there's always a
chance ...
I'll try for Munich, with little success. I'm worried that I'm kind of
going to be grinding my gears this season. I'm hoping I can swing Por out
to Mao and perhaps swing into Iri in the fall. Do you think you could get
into Sil this turn, either without Germany's consent or through some sort
of discussion?
Erik
Message from France to Austria
Well, I'm not in a position to take on Italy right now, I can tell you that
much. Too much going on with England and Germany and Russia. If I can do
something diplomatically to improve your sitution, though, I'm happy to do
so. F Mar is primarily there to keep Italy in line.
In a year or two, though, who knows? A move on Italy might be palatable.
Really, we should've struck early when I was in position, but such is
life.
If you have a specific plan that involve A Mar, I'm willing to listen to
that, too.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Your plan sounds good, but I'm worried about butting my head into Munich
> over and over while you two make gains. Granted, you're in a weak
> position, and you need builds more than either of us. I'd really like to
> get into Munich, though -- any chance that Warsaw could move to Silesia,
> Eric?
I would love it if he would. . .
Concerning my two gains: if I am too weak then Russia will be able to
cruise into the Atlantic, across the stalemate line. This I hope you will
agree, is a problem for you. Plus the dots I'm discussing, HOL and DEN and
KIE, I hope you will agree are naturally English. Plus my proposal only
calls on *any* contribution from you in the fall, so you would have the
spring and all seasons following the fall to pursue Munich, should you fail
to capture it this spring.
> I also need to keep a close eye on Andy. Ben, any idea what he's up to?
His
> replies to me are terse and mystifiying, as usual.
It's how he writes. I am applying pretty firm pressure to get him to go
east, to Turkey especially, but I have no particular reason to think he
will listen to me.
Careful how much discussion of Andy we have with Eric - it's important to
the two of *us* that Andy go east, but I am not so sure Eric feels the same
way. . .
Ben
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> >he says he is still supporting me there (Ser), so please go forward with that.
>
> Wow. I'm surprised he agreed to that. What did you say to make it seem like
> a good idea to him?
>
He told me that he still wanted to attack Austria, and I asked him if we
were still on, and he said yes.
What are your plans
Message from France to England and Russia
So are we all set for this turn? I'm pounding away at Munich, but will be
prepared to support units into Kiel or Holland as requested. Anything else
we need to consider?
Erik
Message from England to France and Russia
> So are we all set for this turn? I'm pounding away at Munich,
> but will be
> prepared to support units into Kiel or Holland as requested.
> Anything else we need to consider?
I'll be trying for DEN & will be seeking support into HOL in the fall. Also
I will be seeking support from Eric into KIE in the fall; I think the
chances of me ending up with three dots are about zero, but we can take
stock after the spring & see where we are. I am hoping for two.
Have yet to hear from Eric; I'm hoping for a note confirming, or a
counterproposal, which would be fine. I will be pretty busy for the next
six hours or so but then should have some access on and off until an hour
before the deadline.
Ben
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> Are we all ok with Philippe's plan.
>
> I am, but things have been quiet for the last few days, so I thought I
> would check in.
I was waiting to see if you were ok with my plan and
presume it's the same with Tony. If you feel my plan
is ok as is, then I also confirm my participation and
await Tony's confirmation.
Philippe.
P.-S. What your take on the RT's moves?
Message from Austria to France
> Well, I'm not in a position to take on Italy right now, I can tell you that
> much. Too much going on with England and Germany and Russia. If I can do
> something diplomatically to improve your sitution, though, I'm happy to do
> so. F Mar is primarily there to keep Italy in line.
>
> In a year or two, though, who knows? A move on Italy might be palatable.
> Really, we should've struck early when I was in position, but such is
> life.
OK. When you are ready to do so, let me know.
At least, your fleets will keep the pressure up on
him.
Philippe
Message from France to Turkey
Jason:
What is the plan on the table between you and Eric? As I said, I don't want
to see Austria disappear and be followed shortly be you; by that point,
Russia will be a very dangerous force. I know he's convenient to your
plans right now, as he is convenient to mine, but it is very important to
both of us to keep his growth limited.
Up North, he's working to keep Germany in check, and may begin aggressive
action against Tony soon, but I'm pretty sure he wants to finish off
Austria first. When that's done, I'm not sure if he'll come after Germany
or turn his sights on you. Do you have any indication of what his plans
are for the next two years or so? Have you spoken with Andy about Russian
growth at all?
Erik
Message from France to Italy
Andy:
I know you and Russia have spoken as much as you and England have spoken,
but I also know that you must be growing as wary of Russia's size as the
rest of us. When Austria's gone, he's going to start looking for other
areas to expand, and if you two are tight, Turkey seems like a logical
next target for both of you. If that happens, though, then we're dealing
with a Russia that's got control of all of Scandanavia and the entire
eastern side of the board. Any thoughts on that?
Erik
Message from Austria to England
Hi Ben,
Sorry for the misunderstanding, but when I asked you to wait,
I only meant a few days to see if it was really necessary after
your initial approach. I was simply afraid that Andy would feel
pressured into doing something against his will and decide to
attack me out of spite.
I realise that I can't really afford to fight with him and if I can
believe what I have receive from him, so does he. So, it seem
that whatever you sent him was well received and I could only
wish it was the same for Jason.
Thank you for your effort on my behalf,
Philippe.
P.-S. How is it going on your side? Any chances of Russia
taking a hit in the north soon?
Message from Observer to Observer
Unless coordination with England were to require otherwise, if I were
France, my moves would be:
a bel -> hol
a ruh -> kie
a bur -> mun
This would mean that Germany cannot support Denmark, so hopefully I'd
have an English fleet helping me out in the fall. The only way Germany
could take Ruhr would be to have Kiel support Holland or Munich in. If
Holland moves in, I take it. If Munich moves in, presumably I bounce
with a ber, oh well.
Greg
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> Sorry for the misunderstanding, but when I asked you to wait,
> I only meant a few days to see if it was really necessary after
> your initial approach. I was simply afraid that Andy would feel
> pressured into doing something against his will and decide to
> attack me out of spite.
I honestly was not sure what you meant but I did not want to take a chance.
Sorry if I laid it on too thick. . .
> I realise that I can't really afford to fight with him and if I can
> believe what I have receive from him, so does he. So, it seem
> that whatever you sent him was well received and I could only
> wish it was the same for Jason.
:-) I've pressured Jason many times to attack Russia. You can see the good
it's doing. . .
> Thank you for your effort on my behalf,
You are welcome.
> P.-S. How is it going on your side? Any chances of Russia
> taking a hit in the north soon?
In the far north - not particularly likely. I am not as equipped as I would
like to be. I am trying with diplomacy to limit his growth. It might help
for you to let *France* know you are concerned about Russia coming over the
top, if you haven't yet.
As I've written you already, Italy can help you against Russia, if you will
let him go VEN - TYR - BOH, etc. We /are/ dealing with Andy, so there is
some risk, and you will have to decide for yourself the best course of
action.
Good luck, my friend.
Ben
Message from Austria to Russia
> Sorry, I had gotten the distinct impression that you preferred that Jason
> and I cooperate. After taking Rum, we talked, and right near the deadline
> he agreed to build F Smy. With that, I changed my build from F Sev to A Sev.
I'm glad you were able to get Jason on your side, but
where you able to send him against Andy, not me?
> Part of that was the last minute change from Turkey. I did not want to
> build two fleets, because I think it is bad policy for Russia to have more
> fleets than armies in the early game. With F Sev as an assumed build, that
> left out F StP. While I did think about changing things around after I
> switched to A Sev, I had already convinced myself that F StP was a bad
> thing. Granted, that's mostly irrelevant with A Sev, but that was the thinking.
Surely, you realise how this look from my point of view.
> Again, I thought that we had agreed that seeing IT fight was good for both
> of us, and my builds, along with the expected F Smy, were largely intended
> to make sure that Andy wouldn't think he could gain control of the
> situation in and around your centers. Without your request, I will not be
> moving to Boh (and I didn't really expect you'd want me to).
OK. Will see how this work out.
> Both I and T continue to ask me to make moves that would allow them to take
> Ser, which leads me to believe that Andy is still looking to expand quickly
> through the Balkans, though I can see other reasons they each might ask for
> those moves as well. What are you hearing from the two of them.
Are you telling me that I only manage to improve your
position within an IRT vs A alliance? I really hope it's not
the case. Andy is being friendly, but it doesn't really mean
anything.
Regards,
Philippe
Message from Italy to France
> I know you and Russia have spoken as much as you and England have spoken,
> but I also know that you must be growing as wary of Russia's size as the
> rest of us.
I am.
When Austria's gone, he's going to start looking for other
> areas to expand, and if you two are tight, Turkey seems like a logical
> next target for both of you. If that happens, though, then we're dealing
> with a Russia that's got control of all of Scandanavia and the entire
> eastern side of the board. Any thoughts on that?
Well...I think that Ben should likely be doing something about the
Scandanavia part, but I would understand the resource issue there.
I heed your words, and will keep an eye on him.
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
I am at work and will study the map later this evening and mail you guys.
Going to SIL/BOH will mean certain death. I dont recall all moves but BUD - GAL supported by VIE has my preference.
Message from Austria to England
> like to be. I am trying with diplomacy to limit his growth. It might help
> for you to let *France* know you are concerned about Russia coming over the
> top, if you haven't yet.
Are you telling me that France intend to split up Germany
with Russia? It's hard to think of a worst situation for both
of us.
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> Are you telling me that France intend to split up Germany
> with Russia? It's hard to think of a worst situation for both
> of us.
They have both approached me about it. The of course have also both
promised me a piece of the pie, which is precisely the reason I asked you to
caution France about the danger of a growing Russia. I am worried about
getting squeezed. . .
Ben
Message from England to England
If this year goes poorly I can start my eog.
I'm worried I told Philippe too much but I need him to work Andy against
Russia if I can at all engineer it.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> They have both approached me about it. The of course have also both
> promised me a piece of the pie, which is precisely the reason I asked you to
> caution France about the danger of a growing Russia. I am worried about
> getting squeezed. . .
With France at 6 and Russia at 7, any cooperation between those
two mean you are allready being squeezed. For God's sake, you
are still at three because of last year.
It look like you're in the same situation with Tony as I am with
Andy, so if you want me to try to return the favor, let me know. I
can't promise anything, but I owe it to you.
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> With France at 6 and Russia at 7, any cooperation between those
> two mean you are allready being squeezed. For God's sake, you
> are still at three because of last year.
Well, you don't have to rub it in. . . :-)
> It look like you're in the same situation with Tony as I am with
> Andy, so if you want me to try to return the favor, let me know. I
> can't promise anything, but I owe it to you.
Hmm. Let me see how this next season goes. I think my situation may not be
as desperate as yours, but I could be wrong.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> Well, you don't have to rub it in. . . :-)
Sorry, I was thinking about France. With a good ally
like you, his job should be to have you get back to the
same level of sc as he, not share some with your enemy.
> Hmm. Let me see how this next season goes. I think my situation may not be
> as desperate as yours, but I could be wrong.
Your call. As for France, how do you think I should
approach him. If he's close to Russia, everything I
say to him migth only incite Russia to eliminate me
more quickly.
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> > Well, you don't have to rub it in. . . :-)
>
> Sorry, I was thinking about France. With a good ally
> like you, his job should be to have you get back to the
> same level of sc as he, not share some with your enemy.
That's what I'm hoping.
> > Hmm. Let me see how this next season goes. I think my
> situation may not be
> > as desperate as yours, but I could be wrong.
>
> Your call. As for France, how do you think I should
> approach him. If he's close to Russia, everything I
> say to him migth only incite Russia to eliminate me
> more quickly.
That's true, but there are some things you could say that would be harmless
if repeated: "Russia is too big; I'm worried England won't be able to hold
him if he makes a push across the top; I am trying to get Andy to go east
but if he stabs me then most of my dots will go to Russia," stuff like that,
colored to match your ongoing correspondence.
Good luck.
Ben
Message from Russia to England and France
Ben and Erik,
Was offline again all day yesterday. Back now. Given my current
decongestant-induced mental state I don't think I should do tons of
planning, so I'm happy to be a sheep at this point in the negotiations, and
forego further counterproposals.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
>I like this. Holland is the better option for him, frankly, but he's
>willing to forgo that to hit what, in the end, are better targets for us
>to have him go for -- they leave him overextended and out of position to
>swing back and attack me. I would think this would occur to Ben, so I'm
>wondering if there's something else going on. I'm pretty sure he no longer
>trusts Tony enough to be planning something with him, but there's always a
>chance ...
Well, the other obvious thing is that it puts him in great position for
attacking Scandinavia, which is something I realized after the builds, but
was not sufficiently worried about before them, and it's too late to do
anything about that now. If you are his next target, then if he does get
two builds, the whole idea of "swinging back" is not an issue for him. He
also is taking the option that has me voluntarily leave Nwy -- something
that didn't work out for him when he did it -- so it could be that he likes
the idea of paying me back on that count.
>I'll try for Munich, with little success. I'm worried that I'm kind of
>going to be grinding my gears this season. I'm hoping I can swing Por out
>to Mao and perhaps swing into Iri in the fall. Do you think you could get
>into Sil this turn, either without Germany's consent or through some sort
>of discussion?
It's entirely possible, I need to see what my southern friends have been
saying, but yes, I think it's a likely possibility.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
So you're still pretty confident that he'll give up Gre if he gets Ser,
huh? Seems unlikely to me, but I can see that he might.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy --
>He told me that he still wanted to attack Austria, and I asked him if we
>were still on, and he said yes.
Bizarre, given that F Smy was supposedly because of how worried he was of
you, though I think having you and Turkey attacking Austria is not a bad
thing for me, it just seems surprising.
>What are your plans
I've spent the little time I've had focused on the game trying to figure
out whether Jason is really going to support you to Ser, and how likely it
is that Philippe will move to Gal with support. My selfish, conservative
side wants to support myself in Gal to ensure I don't lose any ground,
since it also seems unlikely that Jason would really support you to Ser.
But from what I'm hearing, he may actually go through with it (expecting
that you will give him Gre in the Fall). So for now I'm still leaning
towards tapping Bud for you.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
I was so out of it yesterday that I couldn't stay focused on the whole
Raiders game, though I got focused again for the finish. Yet again the
Raiders are just bad enough to lose. :(
I didn't see it, but I heard that your team had an awesome endgame. Congrats!
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Russia
Ack.
Well, the one good thing about being sick is that I'm not too concerned
about the outcome of the moves. That's probably a really good thing,
because the more I look at it, the more I think not building F StP was a
mistake. I know why I didn't, and when I look at the board with F StP in
place it still makes me nervous, but A War and no F StP seriously
complicates my position diplomatically. Almost any move I make now is going
to piss off multiple neighbors, something that is bed enough without being
the early leader. I will also be stunned if Ben does not come after me in
Scandinavia, but as I've said in other places, it's too late to worry about
that. We shall see.
Right now my leaning is to jump on Austria and Germany, move with EF in
Spring, and hope that I can salvage some position in Fall in the north and
maybe pick up a center or two (one each from AG). As much as I want to work
with Philippe, if I'm to have any long term relationship with Andy I have
to do something to make it clear that he can trust me otherwise he'll never
attack Jason, and I'm still not clear Jason will attack Andy on his own.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Austria
Ben,
>I'm glad you were able to get Jason on your side, but
>where you able to send him against Andy, not me?
That was what my understanding was when the builds were agreed to. However,
see below.
> > Part of that was the last minute change from Turkey. I did not want to
> > build two fleets, because I think it is bad policy for Russia to have more
> > fleets than armies in the early game. With F Sev as an assumed build, that
> > left out F StP. While I did think about changing things around after I
> > switched to A Sev, I had already convinced myself that F StP was a bad
> > thing. Granted, that's mostly irrelevant with A Sev, but that was the
> thinking.
>
>Surely, you realise how this look from my point of view.
Absolutely. I don't really expect you to put to much faith in it, which is
what I meant by the "Granted, that's mostly irrelevant..." statement. I was
just sharing the thinking.
> > Both I and T continue to ask me to make moves that would allow them to take
> > Ser, which leads me to believe that Andy is still looking to expand quickly
> > through the Balkans, though I can see other reasons they each might ask for
> > those moves as well. What are you hearing from the two of them.
>
>Are you telling me that I only manage to improve your
>position within an IRT vs A alliance? I really hope it's not
>the case. Andy is being friendly, but it doesn't really mean
>anything.
What I'm saying (poorly) is that I thought that F Smy was something that
would cause I and T to start fighting. What I'm hearing now is that despite
that build Andy and Jason have agreed to honor their previously arranged
deal, where Andy gets Ser and Jason gets Gre. One of IT MUST be planning to
stab the other (I cannot imagine that Andy will give up Gre if he is not
forced to), but neither of them is telling me about it.
So I guess what I'm saying is that what I expected was that I had set Jason
against Andy, but from what they are telling now me I was incorrect. In
which case, you are right, not building F Sev is really a problem for you,
whatever my intentions were.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> I was so out of it yesterday that I couldn't stay focused on the whole
> Raiders game, though I got focused again for the finish. Yet again the
> Raiders are just bad enough to lose. :(
Yeah, but the Chiefs are tough. Don't take this one too hard.
> I didn't see it, but I heard that your team had an awesome
> endgame. Congrats!
It was pretty thrilling. . .
I think Erik is waiting on confirmation of the plan, which is pretty much
your Plan A of SWE - BAL, NWY - SWE, with support into KIE or DEN in the
fall, depending on where I am.
If I dislodge DEN he will no doubt retreat to HEL and I will gain, even with
HOL, at most two centers.
I'll be away for the computer for awhile. What do you think?
Ben
Message from England to France and Russia
Ok, then we are on.
Ben
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
I have looked at the map and have decided the following.
I am in big poo, bigger poo than you two.
SUrvive this year with me and we can look at next year. Good luck.
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> I have looked at the map and have decided the following.
> I am in big poo, bigger poo than you two.
> SUrvive this year with me and we can look at next year. Good luck.
Wich mean...
Philippe
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
Which mean that I need all my units. I am looking at losing DEN, HOL, MUN
just for starters.
I could bounce BOH/SIL but this would cost me DEN, HOL and MUN for sure.
For it to really work I would need to see VEN - TYR, BUD - GAL supported by
VIE. Me to BOH and SIL and the promise for what it is worth in diplomacy
that you guys help me retake MUN. Ormaybe even MUN - SIL supported by BER.
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
>
> Which mean that I need all my units. I am looking at losing DEN, HOL, MUN
> just for starters.
> I could bounce BOH/SIL but this would cost me DEN, HOL and MUN for sure.
> For it to really work I would need to see VEN - TYR, BUD - GAL supported by
> VIE. Me to BOH and SIL and the promise for what it is worth in diplomacy
> that you guys help me retake MUN. Ormaybe even MUN - SIL supported by BER.
Ok....somehow I deleted the moves that Philippe suggested, can you resend
them to me.
Tonys message has confuse me a bit.
Andy
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
> Tonys message has confuse me a bit.>
This is not unusual, you get used to it ;-)
I also dont recall philippes moves off hand but I do recall him not hitting
GAL with two units. Something I think needs doing although I am expecting
Russia to hit GAL with two units too.
But hurry I have already submitted some other crap moves in my battle
against EFR up north and west.
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
Guys it is bed time here. We are not going to be able to negotiate final
moves before the deadline.
My orders are in, let us hope one of the others is late so that we can
negotiate further. For now I am just thinking of myself. I have not ordered
to PRU or SIL or BOH.
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> > Tonys message has confuse me a bit.>
>
> This is not unusual, you get used to it ;-)
>
> I also dont recall philippes moves off hand but I do recall him not hitting
> GAL with two units. Something I think needs doing although I am expecting
> Russia to hit GAL with two units too.
> But hurry I have already submitted some other crap moves in my battle
> against EFR up north and west.
Guys, thanks for the discussion! Out of the blue, one confirm
his participation and the other prefer his own plan, but both
don't know what my original plan was. Got to love you ;-)
Now I don't know what I will be doing and the only thing I
ask from Andy is that he vacate Venice to turn it into a dmz.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Austria
I'm in so much trouble that I don't care to examine it in details.
I thought my plan was interesting; but instead of discussing it,
Tony simply went from cheering us up to going at it alone and
Andy suddenly confirm his part only to tell us that he doesn't
know what he's suppose to do. In short, I & G got better offer
wich they trust and I can't trust anyone around me.
Since I don't know what will happen with Andy, I'm sending
my fleet to Alb to protect Tri and make a move on Greece;
but the most important move is Ser-Rum supported by Bud
to interfere with a switch of units in Rum, Vie going to Tri for
a possible bounce.
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
> Guys, thanks for the discussion! Out of the blue, one confirm
> his participation and the other prefer his own plan, but both
> don't know what my original plan was. Got to love you ;-)
>
Philippe,
I have astrong idea of what your plan is, I just dont have the original
email, and I want to do what I said I would do.
And Tony confused the hell out of me.
Message from Italy to Italy
I am probably nuts for making this move, especially on a spring turn. but
hey....no guts, no glory.
Sometimes you have to create bad situations for good things to come of oit
lets see what plays out.....
Austria: Fleet Adriatic Sea → Albania (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Army Serbia → Rumania (*cut*)
Austria: Army Serbia → Rumania (*bounce, destroyed*)
Austria: Army Vienna → Trieste (*bounce*)
England: Fleet London → North Sea
England: Fleet North Sea → Denmark
England: Fleet Skagerrak SUPPORT Fleet North Sea → Denmark
France: Army Belgium → Holland
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Ruhr → Munich
France: Fleet Marseilles HOLD
France: Army Paris → Burgundy (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Portugal → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Ruhr → Munich (*bounce, dislodged*)
Germany: Army Berlin SUPPORT Army Munich
Germany: Fleet Denmark → Sweden (*bounce, dislodged*)
Germany: Army Holland → Ruhr
Germany: Army Kiel SUPPORT Army Holland → Ruhr
Germany: Army Munich SUPPORT Army Holland → Ruhr
Italy: Army Greece → Serbia
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Albania (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Rome → Venice (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Tunis → Ionian Sea (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Venice → Trieste (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Galicia → Budapest (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Norway → Sweden (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Rumania → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Sevastopol → Ukraine (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Sweden → Baltic Sea
Russia: Army Ukraine → Rumania (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Warsaw → Silesia
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Bulgaria SUPPORT Italian Army Greece → Serbia
Turkey: Army Constantinople SUPPORT Army Bulgaria
Turkey: Fleet Smyrna → Aegean Sea
|