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Germany: Fleet Denmark can retreat to Helgoland Bight
France: Army Ruhr can retreat to Belgium
Message from Germany to England
Well Ben I dont blame you. I hope that my move to Sweden proves that I have turned a new leaf.
I am hoping that you will take Norway as well now. I wont go for Denmark, trust me on this one. I need an ally.
It looks like FR are joining up. No doubt you will be next. No doubt France sold SPA - MAO as a pre-move to WES.
I look at it this way, he gets Holland (and maybe MUN). I could retake Holland and maybe guard MUN but if I am to fall without an ally then I have to ensure someone (france) gets big.
With a build in BRE and maybe another army you will be squashed between FR.
I hope the map now gives you a reason to look at an alliance with me.
Once again I am willing to forget DEN. Take Norway. If I get a good feedback I will go after Holland and try and keep MUN. Let me know.
Message from Germany to Russia
Hmmmmm, this may now cost you Norway as well.
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
Am I glad I didnt go for PUR/SIL.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> hahahahahahahahahahaha
> This must be the thousand time I have done this.
> There truely is no bigger idiot than Tony
> Vernon. get your votes in in pinnacle-d :-)
LOL. You know, the observers of C2 might be in a better position to judge.
. .
Anyway I do not know what I will do yet. There were some surprises in the
East and the West and now I have to put my ear to the rail and listen for
oncoming trains.
Ben
Message from Austria to Turkey
Jason,
You don't want to work with me, fine; but are you
interested in getting Serbia instead of letting Andy
get it? It wouldn't preclude you from going for
Greece as well.
Philippe
Message from Austria to France
Please tell me that you can move against Andy now (Mar-Gol & Mao-Wes)
Message from Austria to Germany
> Am I glad I didnt go for PUR/SIL.
Good for you.
Philippe
Message from Germany to England
Hi Ben, wasnt this broadcast in the yahoo vermont group??
I am now completely lost ;-)
>
> van: USTX Diplomacy Judge <ustx@spencersoft.com>
> datum: 2003/11/25 di PM 02:17:37 CET
> aan: tvernon@chello.nl
> onderwerp: USTX:c2 - S1903R Press from E to G
>
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> now running njudge 1.4.0
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from benjamin.harris@mindspring.com as England to Germany in 'c2':
>
> Tony -
> > hahahahahahahahahahaha
> > This must be the thousand time I have done this.
> > There truely is no bigger idiot than Tony
> > Vernon. get your votes in in pinnacle-d :-)
> LOL. You know, the observers of C2 might be in a better position to judge.
> . .
>
> Anyway I do not know what I will do yet. There were some surprises in the
> East and the West and now I have to put my ear to the rail and listen for
> oncoming trains.
>
> Ben
>
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Hi Ben, wasnt this broadcast in the yahoo vermont group??
[doublechecking, heart racing] I clipped your post to VG and forwarded it to
you here. Now, having checked, I see my press was not also sent out on VG,
unless I'm overlooking it somehow.
> I am now completely lost ;-)
See this is what I was talking about before. If you choose not to be good,
then the expectations you have for yourself will be lower.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
What I wanted in an AI is a limit on Russian growth. An Italian A SER is a
good step in that direction though - no complaints from me.
Good job, my friend.
Ben
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
Once again things look bad for you. :-(
You defended very well. Good luck, my friend.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
We are getting there.......
> Tony -
> > Hi Ben, wasnt this broadcast in the yahoo vermont group??
> [doublechecking, heart racing] I clipped your post to VG and forwarded it to
> you here. Now, having checked, I see my press was not also sent out on VG,
> unless I'm overlooking it somehow.
NO, I ment my origional broadcast. I am glad to see it was sent to vermont group.
>
> > I am now completely lost ;-)
> See this is what I was talking about before. If you choose not to be good,
> then the expectations you have for yourself will be lower.
>
> Ben
But I have improved my ways as you noticed, now all I nee is encouragement. Force your wil upon me, make me good ;-)
Message from England to France
Erik -
Interesting phase in the lowlands. I want to start discussing that with
Russia, after the German retreat. I am thinking, HOL s DEN - KIE, if you
don't mind; there's a chance you would end up keeping HOL and BEL too. As
usual I am writing down the first thing that crosses my mind & I would
certainly be glad to hear your improvements.
For now, could I ask, what are your plans with F MAO? I am guessing you are
thinking about Andy, who it seems will get the lion's share of the Austrian
dots, and remains close to Iberia. . .
I am worried that Andy will grow quickly now, and I think it is safe to say
he will not need any more units then the ones he has to go east. Have you
considered proposing a bounce in WES, if you are worried about him
attacking?
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> But I have improved my ways as you noticed, now all I nee > is
encouragement. Force your wil upon me, make me good ;-)
I am not sure you will benefit from the wisdom of a person whose ambition is
to survive as a one center puppet in STP.
Ben
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
Sadly, I think you are correct. If I had been online longer, I would have
tried harder to get you to take Ska as I suggested in my last message. That
would have been better for both of us. But that's not meant as a complaint --
I'm the one that was out of touch most of the week, so I'll take the blame on
this one.
Good moves around Ruh though.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
As I said in my last message, I thought I had broken up IT, but later found I
had failed. Given the situation I don't blame you for coming after me. Sadly,
Andy is the one that's going to end up benefitting, but I didn't see a way to
get around that after my build annoyed you so much.
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Russia
> As I said in my last message, I thought I had broken up IT, but later found I
> had failed. Given the situation I don't blame you for coming after me. Sadly,
> Andy is the one that's going to end up benefitting, but I didn't see a way to
> get around that after my build annoyed you so much.
Don't sweat it. I wasn't coming after you so much as preventing
the switch of units in Rum. In fact, I would like to support Jason
in Serbia and allow you in Vienna as my parting gift to Andy. Do
you think there's any chances that Turkey will go for it?
Philippe
Message from Russia to Austria
> Don't sweat it. I wasn't coming after you so much as preventing
> the switch of units in Rum.
True. "Coming after me" would have been Bud S Vie-Gal. Ironically, I had
originally ordered Gal S Ukr-Rum to try to prevent you from preventing the
swap. Oh well, my movement choices have been bad enough that I'm not sweating
that particular miscall.
> In fact, I would like to support Jason
> in Serbia and allow you in Vienna as my parting gift to Andy. Do
> you think there's any chances that Turkey will go for it?
Sadly, my gut says no. While I am happy to encourage it, I think Jason's more
likely to trust Andy to leave Gre open for him. Though with him having gained
Aeg, it's worth at least trying to convince him.
That's actually the primary reason I went for tapping Bud in the end. After
the build of F Smy did not break up IT (meaning Jason told me he was still
supporting Gre-Ser), I decided Jason was going to keep helping Andy until
Andy does something bad to him. By helping Jason get Andy into Ser, the
thinking was that there's a chance he will stab Jason this Fall (sooner
rather than later) by not handing over Gre. Had I not helped, I was concerned
that IT would see me as "the guy that keeps ruining our plans" and it would
perhaps cement them against me.
But overall, either way I went you wouldn't have been happy, because I was
clearly looking out for myself at your expense, which is what motivated my
original statement of not blaming you for your moves. I probably would have
done something similar in your shoes.
--- Eric
Message from England to England
I am at a diplomatic crossroads. I need to figure out how to ride the wave
of the East.
I had been trying to keep the FI border warm but not hot, to give Andy some
string in the East but keep EF tighter than FI.
Now I need to wonder if the time has come to encourage - gently - a war
there. Probably so. . . My thinking is, the RTI is back if it was ever
gone, and Andy is devoting more fleets to it than necessary. Which makes me
think, he's headed to Turkey next, with Russia, which is good for Russia,
but not fast. I no longer think an IF war would be bad for me, and it makes
me think my next target may have to be Russia. Assuming, and this is a big
if, he hasn't attacked me first.
This fall I imagine Eric will want to make a bid for BER in the fall and the
tactics of the Lowlands/Kiel are tricky, and I am not much for tactics.
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
Good work maintaining a F BLA with a friendly Russia.
I wonder whether you knew about TUN - ION. It seems to me Andy has all the
eastern fleets he'll need, to take care of Austria.
I hear nothing concerning the eastern theater from I or R, sadly.
Ben
Message from Germany to Russia
> I'm the one that was out of touch most of the week, so I'll take the blame
on
this one.>
Well if there is one thing I have learned is that it is never to late to
make ammends in diplomacy.
Message from Germany to England
Ben, just out of curiosity did Eric do as he said he would in Scandinavia?
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Ben, just out of curiosity did Eric do as he
> said he would in Scandinavia?
Yes. This time.
What do you make of the (South)East?
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Well Russia is becoming very powerful.
I was a little sceptic of the AI press to join them Especially of Italy. The
build didn't tally either.
I pressed them stating I needed to know more and questioned if they were
really together. Austria obviously didnt trust Italy fully but he was hoping
for an alliance to stop the RT onslaught.As long as Italy continues to grow
then he hasnt much to worry about. It doesnt look as yet that France will be
giving him any trouble.
I dont think Russia will want Turkey to grow, once Austria falls then Turkey
will be squashed between IR.
I am also expecting RF to cooporate this fall move on MUN. I have a feeling
Russia will ask for MUN. He will no doubt approach you and offer help into
Kiel, although he and France could go for that too. BEL pushes to HOL, HOL
pushes to KIE supported by BAL in return for support into MUN. If they are
coming after you next then they will have to make their move soon. MAO -
IRI, MAR - SPA build in BRE. Build in STP. I think you, Austria and I will
be BBQ.
Thats the way I see things developing. It will be interesting to see what
happens around Greece. The Turk may sell some story to Austria about
supporting him to Serbia. At the same time he would support himself to
Greece from BUL supported by AEG. I wouldnt be surprised to see an RT
emerge. I think will be a crucial fall to see who the real allies are. The
only main concern for Russia for a solo is to grab as much as he can in the
north/west, this means he has to grab less in the south. He will be pushing
you for eveything it is worth to stay allied. He will obviously push France
to set your mind at ease but I think he will offer France support into MUN
and or KIE but take BER himself instead and push GAL - SIL. It will be an
interesting fall. Once again I will pledge only not to attack DEN. I am
thinking hard what to do retake HOL or try and stop the Russian. If Russia
grabs a build then I think we will see the RF vs E next year.
Message from Germany to Germany
I am slowly trying to get Ben to see the full picture. I am sure FR and RT
are the main alliances for now. I expect to see Russia to turn on Turkey as
soon as he can. He doesnt want the Turk or the Italian becoming to strong
because this means that he will have to grab SC's in the north/west. He will
wish to remain a major player in the south and eat away at germany and
england asap. Ben has to see that the time is ripe to work with me.
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
Interesting developments down there. I wonder if it will be RI against T
after Austria falls or RT against I.
Message from Germany to France
RUH - dislodged, do you wish to surrender now?
I bet the Russian will push you to cut MUN & KIE. He will push for Berlin
and push GAL to SIL.
He must just be a little worried about England right now. So, is it time for
the push to IRI and SPA and a build in BRe? I wouldnt believe Russia if he
offers to support you into MUN or KIE especially if that is combined with a
request to move to IRI this fall. This would definitely mean that he wants
to take BER and for you to take the English pressure off him. Good luck.
Message from Germany to Russia
Tricky times for you. If you can sway England to stay with you I will be
impressed. All I can offer him is Norway and Denmark.
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> Interesting developments down there. I wonder if it will be RI against T
> after Austria falls or RT against I.
T is definitely a puppet, but it's hard to know who own him.
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
>
> > Interesting developments down there. I wonder if it will be RI against T
> > after Austria falls or RT against I.
>
> T is definitely a puppet, but it's hard to know who own him.
>
That is a wise statement.
Message from Russia to Germany
>Tricky times for you. If you can sway England to stay with you I will be
>impressed. All I can offer him is Norway and Denmark.
Yeah, and he doesn't need your help either. I realized after the builds
that it was a mistake to leave Scandinavia so wide open, but after the
builds was too late.
You said something about it never being too late to make amends. I agree
with that philosophy, but I'm honestly at a loss for how we can do that
right now. If you have any specific ideas I'm open to suggestions.
I thought about using your password to submit favorable orders, but decided
that was a bad idea. :)
(That is completely a joke -- I would not do that even if I thought I could
get away with it.)
--- Eric
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Thanks for putting so much thought into your response. I'm still digging
through it - busy day. I'll write tomorrow, if I get a chance.
Ben
Message from Italy to Turkey
Jason,
That went well, I assume I can get a support from you in Serbia this fall.
What do you want to do about the Russian, he is just hovering and growing
at this point, and that is not good for either of us.
Andy
Message from Turkey to Russia
Looks like things went fair, although Austria messed up your shuffle.
I'll work on Gre now, and hopefully we can push onward after that. Good
luck getting everything in place this turn.
jason
Message from Turkey to France
Good to hear from you.
I have spoken with Andy, but he's more concerned about his own
expansion. Russia is trying to be friendly with me and promise RT, but
I'm trying to not be the junior partner in that.
I'm planning on maintaining Bla as a hedge against his turning south,
while not letting Andy get too strong in the Med. I'll certainly try to
push him toward Germany, while encouraging Ben to work on him up north.
jason
Message from Turkey to England
Hey Ben,
I wasn't sure about Tun. I intentionally built F Smy to keep Andy at
bay, but he wasn't happy, to say the least.
Right now, I'm trying to keep I and R in balance, but we'll see how long
that lasts.
jason
Message from Turkey to Austria
What are you thinking regarding Serbia?
jason
Message from Turkey to Italy
Congrats on Ser. Looking good.
How should we handle Gre now? I assume, since you've got Ser, that I can
move there?
jason
Message from Turkey to all
Guys, I'll be offline Wednesday to Sunday for Thanksgiving. I'll make
sure to reply to everyone then.
jason
Message from Italy to Turkey
> Message from jasonab@acm.org as Turkey to Italy in 'c2':
>
> Congrats on Ser. Looking good.
>
> How should we handle Gre now? I assume, since you've got Ser, that I can
> move there?
You can move there next year. I need to get the build, so that I can
actually take another Austrian dot to replace it.
Is that ok with you...
Andy
Message from Turkey to Italy
Got both your messages...
Agreed about the hovering Russian. I was hoping to get some early
leverage with AT, but that petered out quite quickly.
As for the build, that's obviously dicey. You have more units than I do,
so by that measure I need the build more. You have better leverage
against the Austrian, so it would help you there. If you build a fleet,
though, that could hurt me.
Gist of it is, I'd prefer the build, but as long as you build an army,
it won't bother me too much.
jason
Message from France to England
Frankly, I didn't expect to take Holland and get kicked out of Ruhr. Not in
the plans, as far as I saw them. Still, it is an interesting position, and
if I can hold them both, then it isn't a bad outcome. I'm willing to
consider Hol S Den - Kiel, and it's encouraging to see that Russia moved
War - Sil. Could you perhaps order Nth - Hel to cut some support? If Kiel
is dislodged and Hel is bumped, we could end up cutting Germany down to
three centers. Heck, with Russia in Sil and Bal, maybe even two.
Mao is indeed there to deal with Andy. A bounce in Wes is not a bad idea --
perhaps I will propose it. He's definitely on a tear now, with Serbia
bumping him up to six. I have maybe a turn left before I really have to
consider dealing with him.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Hmmm. Your analysis about England's unseen advantage was right on. You
definitely need to move back to Sweden, though you could lose one of your
two Scandanavian holdings this year. It's also possible that Ben is savier
than we thought and has something cooking with Germany to move Den - Swe,
though I think that's generally unlikely.
Is there any way we can prevent England from holding Denmark this year? If
we can guarantee no English build, I can move Mao - Iri and grab Liverpool
in the spring. Maybe it's time for you to speak with Germany. He can't
hold everything this season, not with three potential attackers coming at
him.
Erik
Message from France to Germany
Surrender? When I'm one of three people in a position to grab and/or hold
your territory after this turn? Funny. I am concerned about Russia and
England, though, so I am, as always willing to talk. Iri is a great move,
particularly if I can be sure that the English won't get a build this
turn. Perhaps he would be willing to consider supporting you back into
Denmark just for the sake of denying the English build. He is worried
about them in Scandanvia, I believe.
Erik
France: Army Ruhr → Belgium
Germany: Fleet Denmark → Helgoland Bight
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