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Message from Italy to Russia
> What, me conservative? :)
>
> Odd, I didn't ever see that message from you. Something still odd with my
> email, I guess. That's worrisome.
I guess.
> Clearly I tend to focus on things like: Bla-Rum, Con S Bul, Bul S Bla-Rum,
> which would cost me a fleet in the south. But you may be right that it's past
> time for conservatism.
Its been past it for about 2 years.
Do you think this is his move set.
> I'll look your move suggestions over in more detail later, but in general I
> can go for being more aggressive.
> If I'm going to b chancy, something I might consider in the north is Swe H,
> StP-Mos and assume that Swe gets retreated. Ben has suggested not taking StP
> (i.e., not moving to Bar) if I agree to disband Swe when it's hit. If he does
> move west, and if I disband Swe, it gives me more chances to build in the
> south. Of course, I'd be screwed if he moved to StP and didn't hit Swe.
You dont need more units in the south, you need them in the middle of the
board.
Message from Observer to Observer
Hi everyone,
First off, after having quickly scan all the messages of c2f & b,
I must say I'm a bit surprise by the apparent lack of comments
about the game from the observer after the start. Was the game
that boring or is there another board where all the juicy bits are
stashed ;-)
Anyway, now that I'm there to read your comments, I would
appreciate hearing about my play and what I should try to do
to improve it (if you feel my play was just plain stupid, go
ahead and say so and why, as long it's not me but my play
you're calling stupid, it's fine by me). On my side, I will try to
answer any question you might have.
Also, I would like to know what you all think of janissary pact.
Since I don't like to lie and prefer to honor my end of the
bargain unless it is very detrimental to my interest, I consider
this type of agreement to be perfectly valid. If I were in a good
position that could lead to a solo victory, it seem very logical
to guarantee someone's participation in a draw if I can't solo
in exchange of improving my odds of actualy soloing. Like all
agreement in diplomacy, there's a chance such an agreement
will be broken, but I would expect this to happen only if the
janissary's sc actually become absolutely necessary to solo, in
wich case both the major power and the janissary could end
up stabing the other depending on the situation. In c2, this isn't
what happened. When Eric felt he was better off cutting me
out, he did it even though it didn't do much for his position. If
most players are like Eric, then it doesn't make much sense to
bother with janissary pact. If everything is going downhill, do
whatever you want and promise whatever you want, but don't
expect a janissary pact to actually improve your chances of
surviving to a draw :-(
Looking forward to reading you,
Philippe.
P.-S. Thanks to Alastair Tomlinson for his comments. I sure
had a hard time with Andy. The problem with my plan of going
after Russia first then Turkey later with Andy's help, was how
to handle Andy in the mean time? From his comments in the
previous game, I knew that Andy do not hesitate to forward
press to other, so I was wary of giving him any ammunition. I
also couldn't relate to Jason throughout the game, wich left me
with no room to maneuver.
Message from England to England
So, how 'bout that vgnp?
This presents a mild ethical dilemma - I will dissect it later.
To read the offending post, or not to read it?
Ben
Message from Observer to Observer
sumadartson16 wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> First off, after having quickly scan all the messages of c2f & b,
> I must say I'm a bit surprise by the apparent lack of comments
> about the game from the observer after the start. Was the game
> that boring or is there another board where all the juicy bits are
> stashed ;-)
Unfortunately, I haven't had as much time to write commentary as I'd
like to have. Also, I think that the concurrent running of pinnacle,
using the same format, has hurt the commentary in this game. It's too
bad because I think this has been a very exciting and well played game.
> Anyway, now that I'm there to read your comments, I would
> appreciate hearing about my play and what I should try to do
> to improve it (if you feel my play was just plain stupid, go
> ahead and say so and why, as long it's not me but my play
> you're calling stupid, it's fine by me). On my side, I will try to
> answer any question you might have.
I thought your play was fine. You were dealt a tough position. Italy
was determined to attack you without considering any other options and
Turkey has proven very difficult to work with.
> Also, I would like to know what you all think of janissary pact.
I might agree to such a deal, but I'd be looking for a way out every
chance I got.
> When Eric felt he was better off cutting me
> out, he did it even though it didn't do much for his position.
Given the position, I probably would have done the same thing. He was
on the verge of going down three units and I'm not convinced that your
units were doing him more good than harm.
Greg
Message from England to England
re: Ben's question
First, some quick shots:
1. I am glad to know there is a gallery out there.
2. When I first saw the heading of the VG post, before reading any of it, I thought:
2.a. I don't *think* I posted anything to VG recently
2.b. I didn't think there were other Bens in the VG
2.c. Perhaps this was meant for C2, in response to my question, meaning /one/ /thing/, confirmed after I read the first line or two of the post:
2.d. Ladies and gentlemen, we are entering DefCon 5. Torpedoes are coming, dive! dive!
I saw Eric H. had responded to the original post and I figured I could confirm the worst by looking at his response, which I did. Then I was left with the decision, what should I do - to read the post, or not.
I do not think strictly speaking it would be a violation of rules governing *me*. So I /could/, but clearly I /oughtn't/.
In favor:
I get the benefit of one player's wisdom about my current position.
I may get some insight into something going on with one of the *other* players.
Most importantly, and the first and principle reason why I *would* - other players may be reading this, and I could read it to anticipate what to expect from them.
In opposition:
I would feel dirty and have to take a shower.
In the end, I prefer to go on as I've been all week, unbathed, and I decided not to read it. If confronted with anything presented in it, I hope I could deflect concerns. I *suspect* Erik also will not read it. I hope I'm right. If not, he's not really in a position to attack me, and by the time he is, I will either have (a) attacked him already, or (b) proved myself worthy of continued cooperation.
We will see. . .
In the meantime, I am comforted to know that somewhere out there is a Dip player who has raised the bar for missent press mistakes. Not only to missend press, but to send it from a game in which the person is not competing, to a long list of people, six of whom are *in* the game, and some of the others are *watching* the game.
My friend, whoever you are, you are forgiven, do not feel bad. We all make mistakes sometimes, and some of us are special enough to make mistakes on a public stage.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Is it your intention to undermine Jason? Please don't.
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
I've asked Andy to leave you alone. I'll let you know what he says.
Will you be taking a shot at SER? Can't hurt. . .
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Will you be taking a shot at SER? Can't hurt. . .
Ha ha! Please disregard. Obviously BLA is vulnerable & you may be wise to defend.
Please take any & all tactical advice I give with a watchful eye.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
Ben...
> Is it your intention to undermine Jason? Please don't.
>
God knows I dont want to. But Erik isnt giving me alot of choice here.
He wont return press and he has told me 3 times in the past that he doesnt
care if he dies, as long as I die with him....that isnt alot of incentive
to help Jason. Always good to have a guy who is metagaming and has a
grudge at your back.
What do you suggest I do, just roll over and die, I cant help Jason if I
dont have units, which is what Erik is trying to cause.
Andy
Message from Russia to Italy
>> Clearly I tend to focus on things like: Bla-Rum, Con S Bul,
>> Bul S Bla-Rum, which would cost me a fleet in the south. But
>> you may be right that it's past time for conservatism.
>
> Its been past it for about 2 years.
But tell me what you really think. :)
> Do you think this (Con S Bul, Bul S Bla-Rum) is his move set.
Not necessarily. My first look just tends to focus on what is not
counter-able, which is where that thinking came from. I often get a sense of
what I think another player is going to do, and that's when I tend to be
chancier (as I did Fall '05). Thinking about it perhaps he'd be more likely
to order something like Ank-Arm, Bla S Ank-Arm, Con S Bla/Bul. Your orders
would cost me the fleet in Arm to that moveset, but that's not necessarily a
bad thing, I'd still have plenty of units to hold Sev.
I could also see leaving Sev open in Spring to protect the fleet. Something
like your moves but with Arm-Bla and Ukr hold or support Gal-Rum (to counter
the possible Bul-Rum, Bla S Bul-Rum). This allows either fleet to retreat to
Sev (if he attacks Rum or Arm). If we manage to disband the army in Bul, then
in Fall I could attack Bla while you take Aeg (setting up to take Con or
Smy). The only really bad situation is him convoying Bul-Bla-Sev, but with
StP-Mos even that's not even a disaster.
What do you think?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
[I never saw a confirmation of this, so here's a late resend.]
> What are these 3 projects and are you an engineer or management or both.
I find it hard to believe anyone would care! Just remember: you asked. :)
These days I do very little hands on engineering (sysadmining or programming)
and more technical project management. I do lots of coordination/arbitration
between different technical teams and service providers. I'm not sure whether
that makes Diplomacy good practice for my job, or vice-versa. :)
Project #1 is planning and overseeing the implementation of an identity
management system for the campus. [Spam/note to observers: Anyone that's got
experience in IdM systems and lives or wants to live in the Santa Cruz area,
go to "http://jobs.ucsc.edu/jobpostings/", select "Computing and Information
Technology" jobs and apply.]
Project #2 is managing a small part of a new PeopleSoft implementation for
the campus. [Spam #2 for observers: This project is also hiring. If you are a
PeopleSoft developer, apply for that one at the same URL.]
Project #3 is managing a part of the campus "IT Tranformation Program". Uh,
how to explain? Basically campus management has decided that IT support on
campus is too fragmented and decentralized, so we're changing to a more
centralized/consolidated organization. My part of project is defining what it
will take ($$$, people, service descriptions, resources, funding, job
descriptions, etc.) to make the change happen in one specific service area.
So what kind of business is it that brings you out to SF?
--- Eric
Message from Observer to Observer
Hi,
> First off, after having quickly scan all the messages of c2f & b,
> I must say I'm a bit surprise by the apparent lack of comments
> about the game from the observer after the start. Was the game
> that boring or is there another board where all the juicy bits are
> stashed ;-)
I had no time to write anything because there was too much press to read.
> Anyway, now that I'm there to read your comments, I would
> appreciate hearing about my play and what I should try to do
> to improve it (if you feel my play was just plain stupid, go
> ahead and say so and why, as long it's not me but my play
> you're calling stupid, it's fine by me). On my side, I will try to
> answer any question you might have.
I think your opening tactic (especially F Tri-Ven) was right, because Andy
always looked for possibilities to get your centers. But in the Winter 1901
you made fatal mistakes:
1. You didn't talked to Turkey about his build. So it came that the build
surprised you. I'm quite sure you could have persuaded Turkey to build a
fleet. But you didn't even asked him. So he had the free choice.
2. Your reaction to Turkey after the builds was too crude (especially as it
was your failure that Turkey built an army). You neither had a good
relationship with Italy nor with Russia. Therefore you needed Turkey. You
made it easy for Russia to get Turkey on his side.
You were never able to recover from these mistakes.
> P.-S. Thanks to Alastair Tomlinson for his comments. I sure
> had a hard time with Andy. The problem with my plan of going
> after Russia first then Turkey later with Andy's help, was how
> to handle Andy in the mean time?
There were two possibilities:
1. Direct attack together with France: In the Fall 1901 French offered you
to attack Ven. But you didn't take it.
2. Let Italy attack Turkey (your original plan): With Gre Italy had a good
position to attack Turkey.
By the way Andy was always stressed by France (A Mar-Pie, B F Mar) so that
he was not a too big threat.
Christian
Message from Russia to England
I missed two previous comments of yours:
On the being a prosecutor -- very interesting. My sister has worked in
admissions in a juvenile system and now works as a court advisor on similar
sounding issues (should this kid be released?) around juvy sex offenders.
On the situation in Scandinavia -- if you are clearly moving away from me, I
am happy to keep only the one unit for defense.
--- Eric
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> What do you suggest I do, just roll over and die, I cant help Jason if I
> dont have units, which is what Erik is trying to cause.
We are in a terrible spot. You for survival, me for getting into a draw.
All I wanted was for you not to take any more dots from Jason and to do
what you can - however little it is, I know you are not without skills - to
maintain some balance of power in the East.
Good luck.
I am considering heading for position in the spring - BAR, BAL, a NWY, etc,
and saving the shots at SWE and STP for the fall. Gives me a better chance
- indeed an excellent chance - to lock up BER.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> On the being a prosecutor -- very interesting. My sister has worked in
> admissions in a juvenile system and now works as a court advisor on
similar
> sounding issues (should this kid be released?) around juvy sex offenders.
I prosecuted Juvenile cases for awhile. It was rough work - plenty of
despair all around, a lot of it mine.
> On the situation in Scandinavia -- if you are clearly moving away from
me, I
> am happy to keep only the one unit for defense.
Woopee! ;o)
How 'bout that VG?! I didn't read the offending post, and I imagine you
didn't either, but I shall be curious to see in the archive how - if at all
- it *did* affect the game. Also I shall be curious to see what it was I
missed, when I didn't read it. . .
Ben
Message from Russia to England
> How 'bout that VG?! I didn't read the offending post, and I imagine you
> didn't either, but I shall be curious to see in the archive how - if at all
> - it *did* affect the game. Also I shall be curious to see what it was I
> missed, when I didn't read it. . .
I read enough of it to realize it was an "offending" post. The idea that you
asked a question of the observers about any aspect of the game (even if I was
sure what you had asked about) doesn't seem like it would affect me. I know
I've dropped several "what do you guys think?" type questions into press to
selfs, or questioned (sometimes berated) my own choices to them. The sense I
got was that it was more a guy's discussion about what he saw as the pros and
cons of various options. I get plenty of conflicting opinions on that just
from the various players in the game. So I don't see it as a big deal unless
the post talked specifically about what *your* read of the board was.
As I said on vtgroup, I was more pleased to know that people are -- at least
at times -- answering our questions than I was upset about the error.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
So what's up over there? Any good intel on EF plans or move suggestions?
I trust I didn't drive you off by eliminating Philippe.
It's fine if you're getting tired of the advisor role, just want to make sure
that it's not because you think I'm not interested.
Hope all is going well,
--- Eric
Message from Observer to Observer
> I think your opening tactic (especially F Tri-Ven) was right, because Andy
> always looked for possibilities to get your centers. But in the Winter 1901
> you made fatal mistakes:
>
> 1. You didn't talked to Turkey about his build. So it came that the build
> surprised you. I'm quite sure you could have persuaded Turkey to build a
> fleet. But you didn't even asked him. So he had the free choice.
>
> 2. Your reaction to Turkey after the builds was too crude (especially as it
> was your failure that Turkey built an army). You neither had a good
> relationship with Italy nor with Russia. Therefore you needed Turkey. You
> made it easy for Russia to get Turkey on his side.
>
> You were never able to recover from these mistakes.
Yeah, I'm probably too laid-back for my good. If something
is crucial, I will push for it; but I don't want to come off as too
pushy and tend not to talk about what seem obvious to me in
case the person resent having it pointed out. In this case,
building an army in 1901 was the last thing I expected Turkey
to do after attacking Russia right off the bat.
As for my strong reaction to it afterward, irrational behavior
doesn't sit too well with me, same with bs, and I figure I might
as well let Turkey know it wouldn't fly with me. Coupled with
the rest, I was really disappointed to have invested so much
in him; but the door was still open if he wanted to take it, wich
wasn't the case. Of course, I didn't believe Jason would go for
an IT alliance and that Andy was so piss at me.
> There were two possibilities:
>
> 1. Direct attack together with France: In the Fall 1901 French offered you
> to attack Ven. But you didn't take it.
>
> 2. Let Italy attack Turkey (your original plan): With Gre Italy had a good
> position to attack Turkey.
>
> By the way Andy was always stressed by France (A Mar-Pie, B F Mar) so that
> he was not a too big threat.
1)Yeah, I had thought there was something between IF, but
dismissed it. As for the offer of attack on Italy, I simply
though Erik wanted Andy distracted and knowing Andy's
skills, I didn't want to get stuck attacking him by myself
while RT had their fun.
2) Problem is, his presence there was more threathening to
me then it was to Jason and given the way he got there, I
couldn't trust Andy.
Philippe
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> So what kind of business is it that brings you out to SF?
>
I sell data storage solutions for a living, mostly to the Feds, I will be
there to see NASA Ames and NASA JPL in LA.
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> > What do you suggest I do, just roll over and die, I cant help Jason if I
> > dont have units, which is what Erik is trying to cause.
> We are in a terrible spot. You for survival, me for getting into a draw.
I would agree, and if you dont think that Erik will be attacking you with
the builds he gets from me, you are fooling yourself.
> All I wanted was for you not to take any more dots from Jason and to do
> what you can - however little it is, I know you are not without skills - to
> maintain some balance of power in the East.
I cant with the French all over me like a mormon missionary with an amway
franchise.
I would love to work with Jason, Erik is making that impossible.n
> Good luck.
>
I
am considering heading for position in the spring - BAR, BAL, a NWY, etc,
> and saving the shots at SWE and STP for the fall. Gives me a better chance
> - indeed an excellent chance - to lock up BER.
True...but doing so you would have BER protected at least short term.
I think that would be a decent idea, as good as any other from my
position.
Andy
Message from Italy to Russia
> >> Clearly I tend to focus on things like: Bla-Rum, Con S Bul,
> >> Bul S Bla-Rum, which would cost me a fleet in the south. But
> >> you may be right that it's past time for conservatism.
> > Its been past it for about 2 years.
>
> But tell me what you really think. :)
:-)
> > Do you think this (Con S Bul, Bul S Bla-Rum) is his move set.
>
> Not necessarily. My first look just tends to focus on what is not
> counter-able, which is where that thinking came from. I often get a sense of
> what I think another player is going to do, and that's when I tend to be
> chancier (as I did Fall '05). Thinking about it perhaps he'd be more likely
> to order something like Ank-Arm, Bla S Ank-Arm, Con S Bla/Bul. Your orders
> would cost me the fleet in Arm to that moveset, but that's not necessarily a
> bad thing, I'd still have plenty of units to hold Sev.
Or.....if you really think that is his move, we counter it....
Arm - Bla
Ukr - Sev
Rum s Arm - Bla
Bud - Ser
Gre - Bul
you get the black sea and both Rum and Sev are protected. And you can
support either of us into Bul in the fall.
> I could also see leaving Sev open in Spring to protect the fleet. Something
> like your moves but with Arm-Bla and Ukr hold or support Gal-Rum (to counter
> the possible Bul-Rum, Bla S Bul-Rum). This allows either fleet to retreat to
> Sev (if he attacks Rum or Arm). If we manage to disband the army in Bul, then
> in Fall I could attack Bla while you take Aeg (setting up to take Con or
> Smy). The only really bad situation is him convoying Bul-Bla-Sev, but with
> StP-Mos even that's not even a disaster.
Well....I just got some intel from Ben, but I dont know if he is actually
just testing me or not, he is talking about positioning this turn and
taking dots in the fall...
he says he wants to convoy to NWY and move to Baltic and Barents I dont
know if I believe him or not.
What do you think.
Message from Germany to Russia
Not at all Eric. I have been off sick for just over a week.
Didn't I send you a press?
I will look into my sent press folder.
I havent heared from Ben or Erik since I was removed from the game.
Tony
Message from Russia to Italy
> Or.....if you really think that is his move, we counter it....
>
> Arm - Bla
> Ukr - Sev
> Rum s Arm - Bla
> Bud - Ser
> Gre - Bul
Well, if I were him, I'd want to make one of the following:
Attack Arm
1a) Ank-Arm, Bla S Ank-Arm, Bul-Rum, Con S Bla
Takes Arm unless Rum-Bla
1b) Bla-Arm, Ank S Bla-Arm, Bul-Rum, Con-Bla
Guarantees dislodging Arm
Attack Rum from the sea
2a) Bla-Rum, Bul S Bla-Rum, Ank-Arm, Con-Bla (or Ank S Con-Bla)
Takes Rum if Rum is unsupported, protects Bla, fails if Gre-Bul
or Gre S Rum-Bul
2b) Bla-Rum, Bul S Bla-Rum, Ank-Arm, Con S Bul
Takes Rum if Rum is unsupported, cedes Bla, fails if Gre-Bul
(but works if Gre S Rum-Bul)
If I were him, I'd want to make move #2a. But given that Gre-Bul happened
last season, it would depend on whether he thinks that was a one-time attack.
Any attack on Arm cedes Bul in the above scenarios.
Other, less optimal choices if he expects IT cooperation:
Attack Arm conservatively:
3a) Ank-Arm, Bla S Ank-Arm, Con S Bul, Bul H
3b) Ank S Bla-Arm, Bla-Arm, Con S Bul, Bul H
Attack Rum by land
4) Bul-Rum, Bla S Bul-Rum, Ank-Arm, Con-Bla
Takes Rum if nothing moves to Bla
I think you are right, Bud-Ser is likely to succeed no matter how you look at
it. And I think I agree that Gre S Rum-Bul is the right choice for the Spring
attack. The only question I have is whether to leave Sev open for a possible
retreat in case I'm out guessed. I guess it comes down to: What's the
advantage of having A Sev in Fall, and is that enough to risk losing a fleet
for?
> Well....I just got some intel from Ben, but I dont know if he is actually
> just testing me or not, he is talking about positioning this turn and
> taking dots in the fall...
>
> he says he wants to convoy to NWY and move to Baltic and Barents I dont
> know if I believe him or not.
>
> What do you think.
That conflicts strongly with what he's telling me, but at this point, I don't
know that it makes any sense to trust what I'm hearing from him.
He's definitely set up to convoy to Nwy, and Ber-Bal, Hol-Kie would allow him
to convoy to Lvn or Pru, which is pretty damned ugly for me. I don't think
that (him coming after me) really changes my moves, though.
What's your take on the above? I'm specifically interested in your take on
leaving Sev open while attacking Rum, though I'll take any input you have to
offer.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
I had a 24hour or so period where I seem not to have gotten any judge mail,
so maybe it was just lost.
Hope you are feeling better.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to Russia
Its spring....I am sharing too much here, but here goes...
I position in spring and take dots in fall.
He is in a fairly pinned position....
He might do something as simple as
Ank - Arm
Bla s Ank - Arm
Con s Bul
Bul h
Bul cant be taken and he blows up your fleet and guarntees himself SEV in
the fall. Which at worst, keeps him even.
> Attack Arm 1a) Ank-Arm, Bla S Ank-Arm, Bul-Rum, Con S Bla
> Takes Arm unless Rum-Bla
> 1b) Bla-Arm, Ank S Bla-Arm, Bul-Rum, Con-Bla
> Guarantees dislodging Arm
>
> Attack Rum from the sea
> 2a) Bla-Rum, Bul S Bla-Rum, Ank-Arm, Con-Bla (or Ank S Con-Bla)
> Takes Rum if Rum is unsupported, protects Bla, fails if Gre-Bul
> or Gre S Rum-Bul
> 2b) Bla-Rum, Bul S Bla-Rum, Ank-Arm, Con S Bul
> Takes Rum if Rum is unsupported, cedes Bla, fails if Gre-Bul
> (but works if Gre S Rum-Bul)
>
> If I were him, I'd want to make move #2a. But given that Gre-Bul happened
> last season, it would depend on whether he thinks that was a one-time attack.
> Any attack on Arm cedes Bul in the above scenarios.
If I am him, I am doing 1a...it keeps control of the BLA, which should be
paramount for him. Its his only REAL line of defense against you. And
positions for a sure center in the fall.
But I dont know if he is experienced enough to understand that.
> Other, less optimal choices if he expects IT cooperation:
>
> Attack Arm conservatively:
> 3a) Ank-Arm, Bla S Ank-Arm, Con S Bul, Bul H
> 3b) Ank S Bla-Arm, Bla-Arm, Con S Bul, Bul H
>
> Attack Rum by land
> 4) Bul-Rum, Bla S Bul-Rum, Ank-Arm, Con-Bla
> Takes Rum if nothing moves to Bla
>
> I think you are right, Bud-Ser is likely to succeed no matter how you look at
> it. And I think I agree that Gre S Rum-Bul is the right choice for the Spring
> attack. The only question I have is whether to leave Sev open for a possible
> retreat in case I'm out guessed. I guess it comes down to: What's the
> advantage of having A Sev in Fall, and is that enough to risk losing a fleet
> for?
If it pops it pops....we rebuild it up north in the Winter.
> > Well....I just got some intel from Ben, but I dont know if he is actually
> > just testing me or not, he is talking about positioning this turn and
> > taking dots in the fall...
> >
> > he says he wants to convoy to NWY and move to Baltic and Barents I dont
> > know if I believe him or not.
> >
> > What do you think.
>
> That conflicts strongly with what he's telling me, but at this point, I don't
> know that it makes any sense to trust what I'm hearing from him.
What did he tell you.
> He's definitely set up to convoy to Nwy, and Ber-Bal, Hol-Kie would allow him
> to convoy to Lvn or Pru, which is pretty damned ugly for me. I don't think
> that (him coming after me) really changes my moves, though.
I expect DEN - BAL, Berlin can be walked into from Silesia.
>
> What's your take on the above? I'm specifically interested in your take on
> leaving Sev open while attacking Rum, though I'll take any input you have to
> offer.
I think that if they guess right and pop the fleet in Armenia, we rebuild
it in the north, as you will be gaining and losing 1, with the destroyed
unit we get a rebuild.
Andy
Message from Germany to Russia
OK Eric, I will have a look when I get home this evening and resend.
Tony
Message from Germany to Russia
Darn it Eric, the problem with being in so many games whereby you use the
press from one game to reply to another on the same judge is that
you sometimes cant find the press you sent. Sorry about that. My deleted box
is just to full.
I am feeling as confused as ADAM did on mothers day.
So, bring me up to date and lets see what we can figure out from there.
Message from Germany to England
Hi Ben, it must be very tempting to pick up two builds this year (BRE/SWE).
If you gave me proxy I would order lon - eng, nwg - nth, den - swe supported
by ska & nwy.
At the same time I would negotiate bel - ruh and hol - kie but move hol -
bel instead ;-) May pick you up 3.
Message from Germany to France
How is it going Erik?
Proxy me your units and I will move pie - tus supported by gol, mar - pie,
wes - tys supported by tun. This would leave two on VEN and two on ROM for
the fall moves. At the same time I would negotiate bel - ruh and hol - kie
and insist on support to MUN in the fall. ;-)Good luck.
Message from Germany to Russia
Have been feeding EF the usual. Will await the outcome and your feedback
before commenting.
Message from France to England
Ben:
So now that we've got build paranoia out of the way, let's proceed with our
blitzkrieg to the east. Would you be willing to move Hol - Kiel and
support me into Munich? Bel could then move to Ruhr, and we'd have three
armies bordering it. That takes care of one of our two critical centers. I
may also be able to pick off an Italian center or two.
Erik
Message from France to Turkey
Jason:
So what now? Austria's gone, leaving you alone to face Russia, possibly
with Italian help. Unfortunately, Italy has other issues right now, and I
can't say I'm ready to back down. With a few gains by England and I, it
may be possible for the two of us to keep Russia in check even after he
devours you.
I'm sure Russia would rather not fight on two fronts, though, so if you
could give him a reason to look elsewhere for gains, maybe your chances
for survival are better than you think. Italy has no choice but to defend
against me. Why not pick up a few of his centers? Prolong your survival --
it may be your only chance. If you get lucky, maybe Russia will even give
you enough breathing room to let you get back on your feet.
Erik
Message from Italy to Russia
Have we decided what we are doing, and are your orders in yet??
Message from England to France
Erik -
> So now that we've got build paranoia out of the way, let's proceed with
our
> blitzkrieg to the east. Would you be willing to move Hol - Kiel and
> support me into Munich? Bel could then move to Ruhr, and we'd have three
> armies bordering it. That takes care of one of our two critical centers. I
> may also be able to pick off an Italian center or two.
Good luck with that part. I will move to KIE; you are moving to RUH from
BEL, so we can finally occupy MUN.
Good luck!
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
It crossed my mind & indeed there was a time when I was planning on it, but
now I am unsure.
You don't think Russia's threat is too great? Plus if I attack Erik - you
can bet I'll be facing every unit he's got. There will be no redemption,
when I do it. . .
Ben
Message from Turkey to England
Well, I'm not sure I can focus on Russia. Andy will probably throw the
game before he lets himself die peacefully. Then again, I may be way off
on that.
I'll try to preserve what I have and get a center or two to prop me up.
It's getting complicated! :-)
jason
Message from Turkey to Russia
Not much to say over here - looks like Andy is trying to fling himself
(and me!) on his sword.
I'm more than happy to worry about him, so we don't lose to EF, is you
can give me some space. EF has a lot of momentum right now, adn we need
to stop it.
jason
Message from Turkey to France
Well, what now is a good question.
I will be looking west - I think Andy is willing to throw the game to
try and stay in the draw. We'll see if Eric will give me any space.
jason
Message from France to Turkey
>
> I will be looking west - I think Andy is willing to throw the game to
> try and stay in the draw. We'll see if Eric will give me any space.
>
I know what you mean, though throwing the game kind of implies there won't
be a draw. In any case, he is clearly a risk that needs to be eliminated.
I am glad you think the same.
So let's talk turkey (pun intentional). I don't think you have a shot at
Sev any time soon, so it would be wise to get Bla out from its bottled up
position. Can you move Con - Aeg, Bla - Con? That leaves you with
protection for Bulgaria in the fall and a shot at Greece. He can't defend
against both of us at once.
Message from Italy to Russia
Hellooooooooo Eric...
which plan are we going with...
Message from Observer to Observer
*****
Philippe wrote:
> First off, after having quickly scan all the messages of c2f & b,
> I must say I'm a bit surprise by the apparent lack of comments
> about the game from the observer after the start. Was the game
> that boring or is there another board where all the juicy bits are
> stashed ;-)
Greg wrote:
Unfortunately, I haven't had as much time to write commentary as I'd
like to have. Also, I think that the concurrent running of pinnacle,
using the same format, has hurt the commentary in this game. It's too
bad because I think this has been a very exciting and well played game.
*****
I deliberately didn't sign up for the pinnacle group for this reason. It's
hard enough to keep up with one full-press game (especially between players
like these who send lots), let alone two. Given that I had already invested
time and energy into following comments2, I figured I'd stick with it. I
don't think it was terribly helpful for pinnacle to be following the same
format at the same time - I don't know what the commentary levels on that
game have been like, but either everyone is talking on that one and not many
on this, or the commentary levels on both are going to be suboptimal.
There's no way of strictly enforcing any 'only one comments game at once'
rule, but I think it's a good principle to work from.
I get a guilt trip every time one of the players (often Ben and Eric) sends
press to self asking for comments. I just haven't had the time to make as
much comment on this game as I would have liked.
Alastair
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
My plan right now is to enter flexible orders for the spring - I hope to be
able to go either way in the fall, depending on whether you give me space.
The following things will ensure I can't afford to attack France:
1. You attack - or surround - BER
2. You dislodge NWY
If you can avoid those two things then I will be able to afford to look at
other options. Give me space to work with you, and I'll do it. . .
Ben
Message from England to England
Well, based on Eric's press to me, suggesting without saying he had read
the VG error, I thought I had better break down and read it, even if it
meant I had to shower afterward.
So, I've read it. Obviously the analysis is moot but the observations
about my press are pretty painful. Clearly I cannot rule out the
possibility of MAR - GAS, for instance.
Hmm. I will try to play it neutrally this season, I suppose. . . If all
goes perfectly then I will be able to decide whether to stab in the fall.
On the subject of whether to stab -
I am not an idiot. Well, maybe not. But I do know, it is only worthwile
to stab if it will lead me to a position where I have a shot at a solo.
Unfortunately the IT war has probably made that unlikely - I read from
Jason's last press that he is going after GRE. That's fine in itself but
significant weakening of I or of T spells too much growth for Russia. Who,
meanwhile, does not threaten to cross the stalemate line, unless France & I
go to war. Which I don't mind doing, but not for the sake of a few dots.
I would rather a 8 dot 3WD than a 12 dot loss. I would gamble the spot in
a draw away in a heartbeat if I thought I had a decent chance of soloing,
but if I don't think it's there, I won't try to force it. These spring
moves will probably decide it.
Ideal combination for me, as I've written (in part) to Andy:
Jason holds Eric back tactically
Andy holds Erik back tactically
Andy holds Eric back diplomatically
Eric leaves me alone in BER & in the far north
I have tried to put these wheels in motion, not well enough, I guess,
because of this last press from Jason. But the proof will be in the
pudding.
One afterthought - Tony's stab of France could be disaster, with a suicidal
France trying to help Russia win, and as I've already mentioned, no great
reason to think BRE will be unprotected in the fall.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Change of plans -
Could you please order SWE - NWY sb STP? It would make my dance look
better.
Please confirm.
Ben
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric,
You have been way too quiet lately....WAY too quiet...
Here are my moves, I will likely be out until past the deadline.
Andy
Movement orders for Spring of 1907. (c2.027)
Italy: Army Tuscany SUPPORT Army Trieste -> Venice.
Italy: Fleet Apulia -> Naples.
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea -> Tunis.
Italy: Army Trieste -> Venice.
Italy: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Russian Fleet Rumania -> Bulgaria (east coast).
Time to deadline: 0 days, 7 hours, 43 minutes, and 39 seconds.
Time to grace period expiration: 4 days, 7 hours, 43 minutes, and 39 seconds.
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy,
You are correct, I have been way too quiet. I only had time on the computer
last night for a short time, and it was an ugly oversight that I did not mail
you. (That said, I haven't sent any c2-related mail since the last message
you had from me, so I haven't been out plotting against you either).
I will be moving in accordance with the moves we discussed. I may or may not
cover Sev (I'm waffling), but other than than, I will be taking your support
to Bul and following through on what we discussed in general.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
I have sent no press in this game for the last two days, and am just dashing
this one off on a short break.
> My plan right now is to enter flexible orders for the spring - I hope to be
> able to go either way in the fall, depending on whether you give me space.
Understood. As noted earlier, I have no intention of contesting Scandinavia.
> The following things will ensure I can't afford to attack France:
> 1. You attack - or surround - BER
I have not intention of attacking Ber, but depending on how Erik or I move
around Mun I could appear to be setting up to do so. I'll try not to offend.
> 2. You dislodge NWY
Almost LOL here! Not a chance. Frankly, I doubt acheive this result even if I
entered orders that attempted it. :)
> If you can avoid those two things then I will be able to afford to look at
> other options. Give me space to work with you, and I'll do it. . .
<You know the appropriate quote for this space>
Good luck!
--- Eric
England: Fleet Berlin HOLD
England: Fleet Denmark → Baltic Sea
England: Army Edinburgh → Norwegian Sea → Norway
England: Army Holland → Kiel
England: Fleet London → North Sea
England: Fleet Norway → Barents Sea
England: Fleet Norwegian Sea CONVOY Army Edinburgh → Norway
England: Fleet Skagerrak SUPPORT Army Edinburgh → Norway
France: Army Belgium HOLD
France: Army Burgundy → Munich (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Gulf of Lyon SUPPORT Army Piedmont → Tuscany
France: Army Marseilles → Piedmont
France: Army Piedmont → Tuscany
France: Fleet Tunis SUPPORT Fleet Western Mediterranean → Tyrrhenian Sea (*cut*)
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean → Tyrrhenian Sea
Italy: Fleet Apulia → Naples
Italy: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Russian Fleet Rumania → Bulgaria (east coast)
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Tunis (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Trieste → Venice
Italy: Army Tuscany SUPPORT Army Trieste → Venice (*cut, dislodged*)
Russia: Fleet Armenia → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Budapest → Serbia
Russia: Army Galicia → Rumania
Russia: Fleet Rumania → Bulgaria (east coast)
Russia: Army Silesia SUPPORT Army Tyrolia → Munich
Russia: Army St Petersburg → Moscow
Russia: Army Sweden → Finland
Russia: Army Tyrolia → Munich
Russia: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Army Galicia → Rumania
Russia: Army Vienna → Tyrolia
Turkey: Fleet Ankara SUPPORT Fleet Black Sea
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Bulgaria (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Bulgaria HOLD (*dislodged*)
Turkey: Fleet Constantinople → Aegean Sea
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