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Message from France to England and Italy
> France: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea ->
> Ionian Sea. (*void*)
I am SUCH an idiot. I didn't even think that move was possible. Tys,
Tun, Tys, Tun ... Damnit.
Erik
Message from Russia to England and France
Erik and Ben,
I feel so guilty. I thought that there was still an extremely slim chance
that if I held Ber and Erik took Mun that Andy could support me back to Mun
before I lost Ber.
I was actually available last night in the hour or so right before the
deadline and I chose not to respond. For the record, that is one of the only
times in this game where my not being available was by choice rather than
circumstance.
In any case, now that I've actually lost Ber (Ben, I almost sent you a
message saying "how can I not hand it over", because it *was* pretty likely)
I'm happy to discuss all the options we were discussing before.
Let me know what you'd like to do. We can discuss together or independently
as you'd like.
Oh, and I will be unavailable from the sending of this message for a while,
and that's circumstance again. :)
--- Eric
Message from Italy to England and France
> > France: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea ->
> > Ionian Sea. (*void*)
>
> I am SUCH an idiot. I didn't even think that move was possible. Tys,
> Tun, Tys, Tun ... Damnit.
Erik..we have all written a bad order....hell...I play alot of FtF and I
have seen some of the best players in the world write really bad
orders....if you want examples....I can give them.
And since the Russian just took SMY, I doubt he will have turkish help
this fall.
I will support Tunis to ION in the fall with 2 units.
Andy
Message from Russia to Italy
Just dashing off quick messages here.
I'm not clear why you supported Ben to Ber. I realize that if you assumed I
was going to move War-Sil, it's the best way to break through my line. But
overall, the move seems to make you more irrelevant, at least in the
stop-the-Russian-solo effort. With me in Ber, there was a threat that
knocking you out of Mun would allow me to take it and get to 18.
Perhaps you have a plan to eliminate Erik with Ben's help? That'd be good,
because I don't see any other way I could get to a solo. :)
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
Well, I'm looking at the board and trying to figure out why Andy would
support Ben to Ber. It doesn't make sense. Me being in Ber is the only threat
that he had to throw to me, so why would he voluntarily throw it away?
I can only come up with two answers: (1) that you and Ben told him someone
would be cutting Mun's support, so he didn't expect it to be successful or
(2) he's trying for the outside shot of making Ben a solo threat so that I am
forced to keep him in the game (so he can't attack you and allow Ben's solo).
#1 seems unlikely because he hasn't complained to me, so I think it's #2.
There's not a *huge* solo threat from Ben, so long as you keep him out of the
Med. My guess is that Andy and Ben have a general plan where you get no
builds, Andy supports Ben towards my centers, or at least to make sure I
don't take any back, and Ben moves to MAO and Eng while building another
fleet. If Ben gets into the Med, then I am forced to keep Andy alive to make
sure that Ben doesn't get a solo, while Andy can allow Ben to take you apart
(or perhaps participate and get some builds himself).
Now, to be honest, if we're going to have a three way, I don't really care
who is in it. But tactically, having you in the draw makes it much safer for
me if we can eliminate Andy before Ben can threaten the Med). A side benefit
is that in EFR, you will threaten to throw to me (to keep Ben in line)
whereas Andy will threaten to throw to Ben (to keep me in line). I perfer the
option that might get me a solo over the one that might get Ben one. While
that's completely selfish, I hope that you'll see that it's selfish in a way
that is good for you.
So I suggest this:
(1) I support you into Mun. I can't guarantee success, but I can push it
pretty hard. If you get the build, Ben will have to tread cautiously.
(2) You support Aeg-Ion. This puts immediate pressure on Nap and Adr, and
makes it easier to take out Andy's centers quickly without bogging down your
fleets. If we deploy quickly enough, I could even convoy an army into Apu,
which would get us good positioning without having you worry about me taking
Tun (though note that since I don't hole either Mun or Ber, even *with* Tun
I'm not a solo threat).
(3) You ensure that Bre is available for a build, and consider moving it to
Gas to give Iberia some coverage along with Spa. Lyo-Spa wouldn't hurt
either.
Ben's worst would look like NAO-MAO, ???-Eng, build F Lvp. Another
possibility is that combined with Kie-Hel, Mun-Kie, to give Andy a build and
more throw leverage. I think the suggestions above are the best we can do to
cover the likely moves from EI. They can force Pru if they want, but I have a
long way I can retreat before I give up an SC, so I think working you out
west is the most likely scenario.
You and I are the worst two players in this game about being in
communication, but this is one where we really need to talk things over.
Otherwise, I may end up forced into a position of allowing you to be cut out
of the draw in Andy's favor. As noted above, a 3-way is a 3-way, but EFR has
lots of upsides for me if it *fails* as compared to EIR.
At the very least, please confirm whether or not you will support Aeg-Ion,
and if you will take support to Mun. I'd like to discuss the rest, but I
think those are the most important talking points at the moment.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
Well Jason,
I'm slime, but I imagine you saw that coming and were just hoping I would
hold off. I had actually planned to leave your fleet around, but some board
dynamics that started up near the move deadline changed my mind.
Sorry we weren't able to work together longer. I really thought we were going
to do great things when we were pushing across the board early on, but I can
see that my growth up north made you too nervous. Had I not forced you to
retreat to Gal from Rum, I think we might still have been able to salvage
things, but that just put us in a position that made cooperation unrealistic.
If you can come up with a strong reason to keep that fleet around, let me
know. Clearly I'm not seeing it, though. :)
Good game, and keep in touch.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Well, I didn't hand it over as willingly as you would have liked, for the
reasons outlined in the shared press. I thought Mun retreating to Tyl would
have been good for me. But that ain't the way it happened. With you in Ber
there's not a lot more I think we need to work out. I'll kind of sit back and
see where things go. If things stay messy enough in the south, then maybe we
can push for that 2way. If they resolve quickly, then a three way seems more
likely. But I don't think I have a lot to do with pushing it one way or
another.
Do you agree? Any comments?
Anything sports related we should be discussing? :)
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Russia
I realized at the end of my message to Andy what is probably going on. What I
couldn't tell is whether I should have encouraged it as opposed to trying to
uncover it as I did. On the one hand, Erik being eliminated does give me some
solo opportunities. On the other hand, Andy growing makes a 2-way more
likely. It might not have hurt to get Andy just a touch bigger, but looking
at the overall calculus, it seems that the safer three way with the (way)
outside chance of the solo is better than the somewhat riskier three way with
the mostly outside chance of an E solo or an ER two way.
Comments from the gallery welcome on this point. I'm not certain it's the
right one. (Erik could still try to throw to me as EI whittle him).
And of course, this all assumes I'm even right about what's going on.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
Duh.
Or you could move Wes-MAO (unilaterally, or as an agreed upon bounce). But
you still need to watch for the three fleets (build Lvp and Nth-Eng) for the
longer term.
I still think my suggestions make good business sense for both of us.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> Well, I didn't hand it over as willingly as you would have liked, for the
> reasons outlined in the shared press.
My friend, things went pretty much as I expected. ;o) No hard feelings.
> I thought Mun retreating to Tyl would
> have been good for me. But that ain't the way it happened. With you in Ber
> there's not a lot more I think we need to work out. I'll kind of sit back
and
> see where things go. If things stay messy enough in the south, then maybe
we
> can push for that 2way. If they resolve quickly, then a three way seems
more
> likely. But I don't think I have a lot to do with pushing it one way or
> another.
Well, sooner or later Erik will likely attack Andy. If you are close by
then we will have a 3-way. If Andy has some breathing room then we are
more likely to get a shot at a 2-way. Still, all that said, a series of
small things including this past season are beginning to say to me, Ben,
pack it up. I'm not sure how to proceed, probably for the first time this
game.
> Do you agree? Any comments?
Harrum. Nothing else, really. I'm beginning to look forward to seeing the
comments archives, now that my faint dreams of a solo are, like yours,
pretty much gone. Though having played a game in which press was archived
before - Teachme3 - I admit I haven't a lot of patience for the reams of
nonsense we Dippers can deliver. Perhaps the commentators have been
pithy? We'll find out.
> Anything sports related we should be discussing? :)
Well, it's baseball season. As we say in Baltimore, How 'bout dem O's!
Last I heard Bonds was still chasing that elusive landmark homer. . . I
confess to paying less attention to baseball - particularly the Senior
League - than football.
Ben
Message from England to France and Italy
Gentlemen -
> > > France: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea ->
> > > Ionian Sea. (*void*)
> >
> > I am SUCH an idiot. I didn't even think that move was possible. Tys,
> > Tun, Tys, Tun ... Damnit.
>
> Erik..we have all written a bad order....
This is a non-issue. If a had a dollar for all the harmless mistakes I'd
made, etc., etc. I'd really rather have a dollar for the /harmful/
mistakes, but that's neither here nor there.
> I will support Tunis to ION in the fall with 2 units.
Yeay.
Any suggestions for me, oh wise Andy?
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
An attack against France would be suicide, I think, still, alas. . .
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from benjamin.harris@mindspring.com as England to Italy in 'c2':
>
> Andy -
> An attack against France would be suicide, I think, still, alas. . .
Im not attacking France, but I am going to insist on supporting TYS to
ION.
Message from Italy to England and France
> > I will support Tunis to ION in the fall with 2 units.
> Yeay.
Erik....after looking at the map, I would MUCH rather support TYS to the
ION than Tunis.
It just makes me alot more comfortable. That is all.
KIE - HEL
BAL s BER
DEN - KIE
NTH - DEN
other than that....no....
we need to protect Berlin, get TYS to the ION....
I am currently trying to figure out why I didnt speak up and tell Erik
that I would have prefered an army in Marsaille last turn...BRE - GAS
would help alot.
Because we need another army down here.
Message from England to England
Can I attack Erik? Yes. NAO - MAO, BEL - ENG, DEN - NTH - BEL, build an A
LON.
But I think it's too late. TUN would be Eric's 18th center and in my
wildest dreams I could not capture it, or MUN, or penetrate through the
North toWAR or MOS.
Time to let it go. . .
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Erik....after looking at the map, I would MUCH rather support TYS to the
> ION than Tunis.
Ah! We are busted. I did not understand why he didn't write this sooner.
No matter - he is asking me to put an army in KIE, which is a beautiful
thing, because it will give us 3 armies adjoining MUN, so we will control
it much better without him:
> KIE - HEL
> DEN - KIE
Ben
Message from England to France and Italy
> KIE - HEL
> BAL s BER
> DEN - KIE
> NTH - DEN
This is a fine proposal as far as I'm concerned.
For what it's worth, I do not think TYS - ION is an unreasonable request
from Andy.
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
I am sorry for my own failings as a Dip player, that we could not have had
a relationship good for me and good for you.
This is not what I wanted, but I fear I didn't do enough to make it any
other way. . . Perhaps my next game, when I'm smarter.
Can you join the VG now? It would be a clean sweep of C2, if you could do
it. . .
Ben
Message from Turkey to England
Hey Ben, thanks but it's not your fault. I never did get a coherent
policy for balancing Italy and Russia, and ended up getting stepped on
by both.
Congrats on your place in the draw, though. I can probably join VG, and
I just applied on their web site. Look forward to playing with you again.
jason
Message from Turkey to Russia
Yeah, I did see it coming. The draw looks fairly well set, and there
wasn't much way for me to get into Tun or an Italian center, where I'd
need to be to force my way into the draw.
Thanks for the good game, and hope to play with you again.
jason
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
>Well, sooner or later Erik will likely attack Andy. If you are close by
>then we will have a 3-way. If Andy has some breathing room then we are
>more likely to get a shot at a 2-way. Still, all that said, a series of
>small things including this past season are beginning to say to me, Ben,
>pack it up. I'm not sure how to proceed, probably for the first time this
>game.
What, are you saying you don't trust me? I'm hurt. :) Don't make me dig up
those pictures of you with the goat! (The latter comment is for your and
Andy's amusement later when/if you read the full press log).
Andy has stopped talking to me, which can only mean that he's not looking
for help from me to get a place in the draw. Can't really blame him, as I
haven't done boo to help him all game, only working with him when he was
trying to get me to a solo. Are you hearing from him, or has he just
checked out of the game?
>I'm beginning to look forward to seeing the
>comments archives, now that my faint dreams of a solo are, like yours,
>pretty much gone.
Well, the fact that you had any faint dreams is pretty impressive. Whereas
I have managed to fail to solo with four different players trying to help
me solo, and the other two (you and Erik) working with me for most of the
game. Pretty sad commentary on my play (though perhaps a good commentary on
my diplomacy) if you really think about it!
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy,
I've crossed a threshold that can't be good -- you are no longer returning
my messages. :(
Hopefully we're still on speaking terms. :) Otherwise it'll be ugly at Dip
Con in Portland in a couple of weeks. I just signed up, so I'm looking
forward to seeing you there. Though I must admit, I do expect it to be
ugly, as it will my first FtF experience.
Drop me a line if you get a chance, and let me know if there's anything you
want to try to arrange in this game. Frankly, I'm pretty happy to sit back
and let this roll to a three way, because I don't see much of a better
result in it for me, and well, if Erik attacks you, maybe you'll renew your
interest in getting me to that solo. :)
Take care,
--- Eric
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric,
>
> I've crossed a threshold that can't be good -- you are no longer returning
> my messages. :(
>
I thought I returned everything, if I didnt it was purely oversight.
> Hopefully we're still on speaking terms. :) Otherwise it'll be ugly at Dip
> Con in Portland in a couple of weeks. I just signed up, so I'm looking
> forward to seeing you there. Though I must admit, I do expect it to be
> ugly, as it will my first FtF experience.
I think you will do fine.
> Drop me a line if you get a chance, and let me know if there's anything you
> want to try to arrange in this game. Frankly, I'm pretty happy to sit back
> and let this roll to a three way, because I don't see much of a better
> result in it for me, and well, if Erik attacks you, maybe you'll renew your
> interest in getting me to that solo. :)
I cant see it being anything but a 4 way.
Have a good one.
Andy
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> What, are you saying you don't trust me? I'm hurt. :) Don't make me dig up
> those pictures of you with the goat! (The latter comment is for your and
> Andy's amusement later when/if you read the full press log).
Ugh, a press log. I will give it my best shot. No doubt I should have
been eliminated early, so I could make a proper study of the thing.
> Andy has stopped talking to me, which can only mean that he's not looking
> for help from me to get a place in the draw. Can't really blame him, as I
> haven't done boo to help him all game, only working with him when he was
> trying to get me to a solo. Are you hearing from him, or has he just
> checked out of the game?
*Andy!?* *Checked out!?* You must be kidding.
> >I'm beginning to look forward to seeing the
> >comments archives, now that my faint dreams of a solo are, like yours,
> >pretty much gone.
>
> Well, the fact that you had any faint dreams is pretty impressive.
:-) I strive to be impressive.
> Pretty sad commentary on my play (though perhaps a good commentary on
> my diplomacy) if you really think about it!
Whereas I have stabbed every player near me & am still on good terms with
those surviving. . . Perhaps a good commentary on mine!
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Anything to talk about, now at the last minute?
Ben
Message from France to England and Italy
>
> Erik....after looking at the map, I would MUCH rather support
> TYS to the ION than Tunis.
>
> It just makes me alot more comfortable. That is all.
>
Understood. Orders are in.
Erik
Message from Italy to England
> Message from BHarris@StAttorney.org as England to Italy in 'c2':
>
> Andy -
> Anything to talk about, now at the last minute?
>
I dont think so, but I cant get a bloody map to load, so I dont have
orders in yet.
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
If you get this before deadline, by any chance, I could use that support
into Munich. Can't offer any support into Ion, but I can't say I'll be
fighting to get there, either.
Erik
England: Fleet Baltic Sea SUPPORT Army Berlin
England: Fleet Barents Sea SUPPORT Army St Petersburg
England: Fleet Belgium SUPPORT Fleet North Sea
England: Army Berlin SUPPORT Army Denmark → Kiel (*cut*)
England: Army Denmark → Kiel
England: Fleet Kiel → Helgoland Bight
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean HOLD
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Fleet Belgium
England: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Italian Army Munich
England: Army St Petersburg SUPPORT Russian Army Moscow
France: Army Brest → Gascony
France: Army Burgundy → Marseilles
France: Fleet Gulf of Lyon → Tuscany
France: Fleet Tunis → Ionian Sea (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Rome
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean → Tyrrhenian Sea
Italy: Fleet Adriatic Sea SUPPORT French Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Ionian Sea (*void*)
Italy: Army Munich SUPPORT English Army Berlin
Italy: Fleet Naples SUPPORT French Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Ionian Sea (*void*)
Italy: Army Venice → Trieste (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Aegean Sea → Ionian Sea
Russia: Army Albania SUPPORT Army Trieste
Russia: Army Bohemia SUPPORT French Army Burgundy → Munich (*void*)
Russia: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Aegean Sea → Ionian Sea
Russia: Army Livonia HOLD
Russia: Army Moscow SUPPORT Army Livonia
Russia: Army Prussia → Berlin (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Serbia → Budapest
Russia: Army Silesia SUPPORT French Army Burgundy → Munich (*void*)
Russia: Fleet Smyrna HOLD
Russia: Army Trieste HOLD
Russia: Army Vienna → Tyrolia
Turkey: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean → Smyrna (*bounce*)
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