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Italy: Removes 1 unit
Russia: Builds 2 units
Message from Italy to England and France
You two need to cease hostilities right now...
He has 16 cold, and will be at 18 without Tunis,
Erik, you need to either support me or take my dots and hold them.
Ben, You need to back off and go north RIGHT NOW.
I have kept my mouth shut to the two of you for about 3 turns now, and all
its done is make the Russian stronger...
I have no idea what kind of deals you guys have with him but its not
working
If I need to write our orders I will, but I would like to hear from both
of you confirming you understand what I am saying.
Andy
Message from Italy to Italy
I havent written to myself in a while.....here goes...and its going to be
alittle viceral since I just got stabbed.
Questions for myself and the viewing audience....
1. Can I go a fucking turn without someone trying to crawl up my ass....
Between Erik and Eric one of them has been trying to do a body cavity
search on me since the beginning of the game....Ok...now that I have
that out I wont bitch anymore.
2. What the fuck is Jason thinking.
3. Can I get Ben and Erik to do the right thing....RIGHT FUCKING NOW.
4. Will Eric do the right thing so that assuming I get these two in line,
it wont matter what we do.
Sorry about all the F words...Im annoyed and I saw a great movie this
morning called Intermission....I recommend it highly.
Be well good souls, its time to dig in and make Eric squirm.
Andy
Message from England to France and Italy
Andy -
> You two need to cease hostilities right now...
Fine with me - I thought we'd been working on it. . .
> He has 16 cold, and will be at 18 without Tunis,
Yes, yes.
> Erik, you need to either support me or take my dots and hold them.
>
> Ben, You need to back off and go north RIGHT NOW.
I thought I *was* going north, but I can do more. I should have STP by the
end of the year following this coming one, as I count it.
> I have kept my mouth shut to the two of you for about 3 turns now, and all
> its done is make the Russian stronger...
:-) I've never asked you to keep your mouth shut.
> I have no idea what kind of deals you guys have with him but its not
> working
No deal, except for gentle pressure I'd put on him to leave you alone -
apparently it didn't work.
> If I need to write our orders I will, but I would like to hear from both
> of you confirming you understand what I am saying.
I surely understand. I envision convoying BRE - NWY. Surely we could put
it a French army *back* in BUR, Erik willing, with attacks against MUN -
from BUR, if Erik wants - soon to follow. Centers could be swapped around
as *needed* - not as a matter of pride, which must now give way - but as
*needed* for the greater good.
Just out of curiousity - why didn't ROM cover VEN?
I've told you many times - if you have suggestions for me, write them.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
Expect Andy to start throwing the game any second.
It's not *quite* as dire as he says, because he is including STP as
Russian, but it shouldn't be for long.
Please tell me you'll move back to BUR. From there, we have a credible
threat against MUN, which means he won't be able to be as creative anywhere
else. And if he tries, I'll be able to put you in MUN. I have no interest
in the province.
Let me know your thoughts.
Ben
Message from Italy to England and France
Ben and Erik.
> > You two need to cease hostilities right now...
> Fine with me - I thought we'd been working on it. . .
>
> > He has 16 cold, and will be at 18 without Tunis,
> Yes, yes.
>
as long as we all know that.
> > Ben, You need to back off and go north RIGHT NOW.
> I thought I *was* going north, but I can do more. I should have STP by the
> end of the year following this coming one, as I count it.
no...if he bounces you in Finland, he holds onto STP this year.
Its not that simple.
> > I have kept my mouth shut to the two of you for about 3 turns now, and all
> > its done is make the Russian stronger...
> :-) I've never asked you to keep your mouth shut.
Good point.
> > I have no idea what kind of deals you guys have with him but its not
> > working
> No deal, except for gentle pressure I'd put on him to leave you alone -
> apparently it didn't work.
Well...he sees his solo and doesnt expect us to come together.
>
> > If I need to write our orders I will, but I would like to hear from both
> > of you confirming you understand what I am saying.
> I surely understand. I envision convoying BRE - NWY. Surely we could put
> it a French army *back* in BUR, Erik willing, with attacks against MUN -
> from BUR, if Erik wants - soon to follow. Centers could be swapped around
> as *needed* - not as a matter of pride, which must now give way - but as
> *needed* for the greater good.
We also need an army in Marsaille and it wont be mine, I am moving south.
> Just out of curiousity - why didn't ROM cover VEN?
Because if he wanted it he could force it anyway as long as I was moving
to Piedmont. If he held his end of the bargain, there is an Italian army
in Albania in this coming spring.
> I've told you many times - if you have suggestions for me, write them.
Let me look at the board.
I know what I think I should disband, but I would like both of your inputs
on this.
Erik .....now is not a time to keep quiet.
Andy
Message from England to France and Italy
Andy -
> > I thought I *was* going north, but I can do more. I should have STP by
the
> > end of the year following this coming one, as I count it.
>
> no...if he bounces you in Finland, he holds onto STP this year.
> Its not that simple.
Well, I don't want to quibble, but I did say the end of the year
/following/ this /coming/ one.
Just so you know I'm paying attention.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> > > I thought I *was* going north, but I can do more. I should have STP by
> the
> > > end of the year following this coming one, as I count it.
> >
> > no...if he bounces you in Finland, he holds onto STP this year.
> > Its not that simple.
> Well, I don't want to quibble, but I did say the end of the year
> /following/ this /coming/ one.
>
> Just so you know I'm paying attention.
Oh...noted....sorry
I will be in touch.
Andy
Message from France to England and Italy
Guys:
I ain't keepin' quiet, I'm just not a quick on the draw as you two.
So, yes, it's true. Eric is the giant pink elephant in the room right now,
Jason is his Jannisary and only by working together can we prevent a
Russian solo. Glad we're all on the same page with these drastically
apparent circumstances.
Andy, I appreciate your keeping your word to me and not attacking. Makes
this coordination much easier. Ben, the reason I'm not still in Burgundy
is that I foresaw the need for a build, and I wasn't sure how willing
you'd be to give me Brest voluntarily. Clearly, though, if I can make an
argument, you're open to that now. I will get back to that in a minute.
> > I surely understand. I envision convoying BRE - NWY. Surely we could
> put
> > it a French army *back* in BUR, Erik willing, with attacks against MUN
> -
> > from BUR, if Erik wants - soon to follow. Centers could be swapped
> around
> > as *needed* - not as a matter of pride, which must now give way - but
> as
> > *needed* for the greater good.
>
> We also need an army in Marsaille and it wont be mine, I am moving
> south.
Exactly. I can head to Marseilles, but to be honest, I need another army
long-term. Ben, your fleet in MAO isn't doing anything but making me
nervous -- why not pui A Bre out and allow me to move Pic - Bur, Par -
Bre? All solo threats aside, it's *still* hard for me to trust you while
you're holding my home center, so giving Bre back and disbanding Mao will
both increase my security level and give me an extra build to send down
south.
Pic will go to Bur regardless. I'd just really like another guaranteed
build next year, even if Munich is a possibility, as I'll need to be able
to send some force into the Italian peninsula to support Andy or push
Russia back if Andy falls.
Andy, what can I do with my fleets down south? Spa - Mar, Wes - Tys?
>
> Because if he wanted it he could force it anyway as long as I was moving
> to Piedmont. If he held his end of the bargain, there is an Italian army
> in Albania in this coming spring.
True enough, Andy warned me this might happen.
> I know what I think I should disband, but I would like both of your
> inputs
> on this.
F Bul is useless. Drop it.
As for Russia, we're guaranteed A War and a probable F Sev -- he needs sea
power in the Med.
Erik
Message from England to France and Italy
Gentlemen -
> I ain't keepin' quiet, I'm just not a quick on the draw as you two.
I ain't too bright but I can lift heavy things.
> Andy, I appreciate your keeping your word to me and not attacking. Makes
> this coordination much easier. Ben, the reason I'm not still in Burgundy
> is that I foresaw the need for a build, and I wasn't sure how willing
> you'd be to give me Brest voluntarily. Clearly, though, if I can make an
> argument, you're open to that now. I will get back to that in a minute.
Well, yes, but you would not have been able to force BRE.
> Exactly. I can head to Marseilles, but to be honest, I need another army
> long-term. Ben, your fleet in MAO isn't doing anything but making me
> nervous -- why not pui A Bre out and allow me to move Pic - Bur, Par -
> Bre? All solo threats aside, it's *still* hard for me to trust you while
> you're holding my home center, so giving Bre back and disbanding Mao will
> both increase my security level and give me an extra build to send down
> south.
I'm looking at other things besides the convoy, too, don't get me wrong.
Yes, I can give back BRE and I will throw support for PIC - BUR, no extra
charge. *However* there is something to be said for PAR - GAS because I
would expect Eric to seize PIE this spring, which would put him next to a
vacant MAR, and Erik, your fleets may be otherwise occuppied.
> Pic will go to Bur regardless. I'd just really like another guaranteed
> build next year, even if Munich is a possibility, as I'll need to be able
> to send some force into the Italian peninsula to support Andy or push
> Russia back if Andy falls.
MUN will have to be catching Russia off guard. If you were still in BIR.
we cpi;d tale advamtage of the Italian A PIE, alas, . . . If my
grandmother were yellow & had wheels, she'd be a school bus.
> > I know what I think I should disband, but I would like both of your
> > inputs on this.
>
> F Bul is useless. Drop it.
Hm. I would say F ION. The French fleets can defend ION more than
adequately and the Italian F BUL forces them to hold back to dispose of the
rogue unit rather than charge the southern line. My 2c.
> As for Russia, we're guaranteed A War and a probable F Sev -- he needs sea
> power in the Med.
I agree.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
On a completely unrelated subject - I hope you are occasionally writing
press to yourself. I'd like to read it afterward - you were woefully
inadequate, if you don't mind me saying so, in this regard in Comments.
It's probably alittle late to be bringing this up.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
I know you know Andy will not permit a position in which he is expendable.
He says we need an army in MAR, and I suppose we do. But we will need I
think one more southern *fleet*, too, though I haven't researched the point
- thankfully we're not at that point, though at the end of the year I think
we will be.
Just something to bear in mind - in the end I think you will have to be
*fleet* heavy rather than *army* heavy, which is partly why I felt I could
encourage Andy to disband F ION. Russia is no match for you - yet.
Though in retrospect - disbanding F ION may be too dangerous. . .
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
Ben
Message from England to France and Italy
Hm.
Perhaps I should have followed Erik's lead and recommended disbanding F
BUL. It would be quite difficult to bring additional fleets to bear
against ION against the RT southern fleets - I was forgetting to count
Jason's fleet as Russian.
Ben
Message from England to England
I believe my greatest game-long mistake has been failing to pursue
relations with AT. I *wanted to*, I wrote them each press, but I think I
was missing whatever it was in the dialogue that would have stimulated me
to write more.
Clearly the kind of mistake that can cost a person a chance to solo, and I
*should* have been the one to direct Jason, as I had his trust fairly early
on. Lost opportunities.
Ben
Message from Italy to England and France
> > Exactly. I can head to Marseilles, but to be honest, I need another army
> > long-term. Ben, your fleet in MAO isn't doing anything but making me
> > nervous -- why not pui A Bre out and allow me to move Pic - Bur, Par -
> > Bre? All solo threats aside, it's *still* hard for me to trust you while
> > you're holding my home center, so giving Bre back and disbanding Mao will
> > both increase my security level and give me an extra build to send down
> > south.
> I'm looking at other things besides the convoy, too, don't get me wrong.
> Yes, I can give back BRE and I will throw support for PIC - BUR, no extra
> charge. *However* there is something to be said for PAR - GAS because I
> would expect Eric to seize PIE this spring, which would put him next to a
> vacant MAR, and Erik, your fleets may be otherwise occuppied.
My moves are as follows,
ION - ADR
APU - ROM
PIE - VEN
one is likely to bounce, which should bounce everything.
Erik,
Your fleets should be doing the following.
Tun - ION
WES - TYS
SPA(SC) - LYO
> > F Bul is useless. Drop it.
That is my feeling.
> Hm. I would say F ION. The French fleets can defend ION more than
> adequately and the Italian F BUL forces them to hold back to dispose of the
> rogue unit rather than charge the southern line. My 2c.
>
No...ION is going to ADR, and assuming he doesnt fall back off the Munich
line, I can take back VEN to compesate for BUL, which I will be losing.
Andy
Message from Italy to England
> On a completely unrelated subject - I hope you are occasionally writing
> press to yourself. I'd like to read it afterward - you were woefully
> inadequate, if you don't mind me saying so, in this regard in Comments.
>
> It's probably alittle late to be bringing this up.
I was doing it regularly at the beginning of the game, I stopped when I
started working with Russia, but I am doing it again...starting last
night.
Andy
Message from Italy to England and France
Guys....
I know I havent said this before but at this point I think it needs to be
said.
Let me be perfectly clear about one thing.
If you say you are working with me and then you try to take my dots, I
will help the Russian Solo...
And if you think you can get me out, before he gets 2 more dots, you are
smoking the good crack.
it isnt a threat....its just reality.
Andy
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy,
So if you're still up to helping me solo, it should be a lot easier now. :)
Though I suspect that isn't on your agenda any more.
I truly expected Ser-Gre to bounce, and I Tri-Ven (without support) was just
a remnant from when I thought about moving Tri back as you had suggested. The
support for Jason to Smy was what I was getting at with the comment about not
being quite ready to give up on the possibility of a solo. I really did think
REI was the most likely result, and figured that after this season I'd
probably come out even and then just hunker down quietly into a 3way. But
after screwing a really good opportunity to be aggressive last season, I felt
like I had to take a chance on something this season.
I'm assuming that with my moves (and based on the silence that followed them)
that any sort of RI coordination is out of the question. I certainly can't
blame you if that's the case. If I'm wrong and you want to work something
out, I'm here. Actually, even if I'm right, I'm still here and open to
discussion, berating, or whatever.
In any case, I think we can both agree that I'll be the one to do the
treating at our next sushi lunch. :) Maybe we can do that next month in
Portland, since I'm still considering attending.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
Well, after cursing my last moves in press to self, I promised myself I would
at least try to do something more daring this season. Now I'm wondering if it
wasn't overall a good thing (in a "dumb luck" sort of way) to have made such
a wussy set of moves in Spring. I had zero expectation of the moves working
that way. I expected Ion-Gre to bounce me, and I *never* expected Tri-Ven to
succeed.
I guess the best move now is to try pushing into Italy proper. I'm guessing
that Andy will disband F Bul,, try to convoy to Alb, and then support Ben
against Erik. Any reason you can see not to build F Sev? And any thoughts on
trying for Bur vs. moving Ven into Italy and backfilling with Tyl and Boh
(Andy can't cover all of Rom, Apu, Tus and Pie after all).
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
Well, that was more what I was hoping for, but now you're kind of stuck in
corner of the map. I'd like to suggest that we sail you out into the Ion,
where you could maybe pick up Tun or Nap. That helps me in that it gets
another fleet into the Med, helps you in that it gives you a(n outside)
chance at an SC to hang onto to get into a draw.
The only other option I see for you is to work with Andy, which might be more
interesting for you, but would definitely encourage me to try to take your
last center.
If you are willing to try for Tun/Nap/Ion, I'm happy to leave Smy in your
hands until we can get you a replacement center. Obviously it would also be
sort of held hostage, but as I've said all along, you've got a fleet in the
Med there, and I need fleets for the Med, so it's in my best interests to
keep that fleet alive (at least, if it's working for me).
Let me know what you want to do.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
Well, with giving up Bul I certainly did not expect to get a build, let alone
two. I'm betting that was a mixed blessing for you. On the one hand, my moves
keep Andy from being able to put TOO much pressure on you. On the other hand,
they make it more likely that he'll try to help Ben to spite me, and they
make me look a LOT more dangerous than I was.
I can't think of many ways that we could cooperate that wouldn't be risky for
you, and you may be more interested in a stop-the-leader coalition. But if
you wanted to, I could see you supporting me (or Turkey) into Ion, and then
making a push for Italy proper. If I took Ion, I could support you into Tys,
then Nap. I haven't looked to figure out if that gets you a build soon enough
to actually help your position, but it's the only southern cooperation I can
imagine.
In the north, Mar is vulnerable, but I don't know what Andy's going to do. If
he disbands Pie, then you're probably in good shape short term, but even if
Ben backs off of you I can't see Andy working to get you builds, which means
that when (and if) you two stalemate me, Ben will sweep in and try for a solo
or to reduce the draw down.
So how do you want to proceed?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Well, that did not go *at all* according to plan. I mean, it was good for me
and all, but I fully expected to end up even in centers (Ion-Gre and Ven H or
Rom-Ven were my expectation). That makes 2-way discussions a bit more risky.
Though for all I know Andy is going to want to try to help you solo now, so
maybe they're as risky for me as they are for you. I hope at least that my
not moving to Fin helps you maintain some level of comfort that I'm still
trying to stay in line with you.
What's your thinking at this point?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Russia
You have got to be kidding me. I cannot believe I got those builds, and I
have to admit, I'm not completely sure if it was helpful, or if it's more
likely to cause an E solo. Though I can't see that it'd be easy for Andy to
create the E solo.
What I wrote to others was the honest truth -- I figured Ser-Gre would
bounce, and Tri-Ven was a throwaway move that was in place from when I
thought about moving Mun-Bur and Tyl-Mun or Tyl-Pie -- it was intended to
cover Tri defensively, much as Tyl-Ven, Tri-Ven did last season.
I did think I had to get Andy down to two units if I was to have a shot of
keeping Erik alive (and Ben from soloing) long enough to get to at least the
2WD line and maybe push for a solo. With Andy at three and holding Bul, I've
stumbled into meeting that requirement, though I didn't want Erik threatened
at the same time. Heck, if I knew the other moves were going to work, I would
have tried harder to get Erik into Mun.
I'm not sure what Rom-Apu was for. It could have been Andy moving to set up a
DMZed border if I really moved away from Tri as I implied I would. It also
looks like a potential set up to convoy into Gre or Alb (which now I might
have to expect). I suspect a little of both is the reality.
In any case, I'm expecting Andy will now try to throw to Ben, but we'll see
what we can do. Assuming a complete and trusting stop-the-leader board
alliance, Andy would probably disband Pie (for goodwill with Erik) and moves
would be something like Ion-Adr, Tun-Ion, Wes-Tys, Apu-Rom/Ven (to block
either Ven-Rom or Tyl-Ven), Bul-Con, Smy S Bul-Con. Or Bul-Con, Smy S
Ion-Aeg, Tun-Ion. Either moveset sets up a convoy from Apu into Gre, and
gives Erik a chance to protect Rom on Andy's behalf (and a long shot at a
convoy into Rom or Tus). This all assumes that Jason and Erik choose to help
Andy, and that Erik trusts Ben to back off while he comes after me, and that
Ben actually does. The odds on all of those happening seem rather long, so
that gives me some comfort too.
Beyond that, Andy can try to hurt Erik to help Ben, which would probably mean
disbanding F Bul, then taking Mar, and trying to support Ben into the
Med/Tun. Which could lead to an E solo, depending on how quickly Erik falls,
or could actually help get us to a 2way as well. At some point though, I'm
going to have to hand over StP. As long as I hold it, it'll be clear to Ben
that I'm not serious about a 2way. Which I'm not yet.
The Ser-Gre move, while expected to bounce, was still clearly hostile, as it
gave me a chance to support myself into Gre or Bul next season.Overall, this
is the first time I ever recall (in my diplomacy career) making a move that
truly tries to force myself towards a solo instead of trying to diplom my way
into one (as I had been with Phillipe (Philippe?), Tony, Andy, Erik and Jason
at various points in the game).
So frankly, even if these moves turn out to be a bad choice, I'm feeling good
about finally having made an out-and-out aggressive move, especially after
that lousy set of choices last season. It completely violates my conservative
tendencies of not having a player (like Andy) who is in a key position
dislike me more than another player that is potentially able to win (Ben).
But still, even though it may have been the wussy moves last season that set
everything up for this season's success, it really was just dumb luck that my
Fall moves were so successful.
--- Eric
Italy: REMOVE Fleet Bulgaria (south coast)
Russia: BUILD Fleet Sevastopol
Russia: BUILD Army Warsaw
Centers
England: 11
France: 5
Italy: 3
Russia: 14
Turkey: 1
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